Where’s non-PAE’s available?

[grandmaslaptop]

I have a really old laptop from 2001 that needs refreshing. I researched and found puppy Linux and lubuntu, which seems like the best choices. From what I found, tahrpup was the most suiting for low-ram pc’s, just what I need. I tried lubuntu, bypassed PAE with ‘forcepae’ and tried it. Wasn’t for me. Today I wanted to try puppy instead, but got stuck at the PAE part because I couldn’t find how to bypass it here. Apparently there should be non-PAE versions which I can’t find. I’d love to try one of them but I really don’t know how.

Laptop model: Fujitsu Siemens AMILO M1425
Ram: 512mb
Graphics: AMD Mobility Radeon 9700
Cpu: Intel Pentium M (some sort of it)

[TerryH]

Here's a couple of candidates to start with.

Slacko 5.7.1 WoofCE by Sailor Enceladus:

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=215

Quirky Light by jrb:

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=71

[foxpup]

welcome to Puppyland!

To answer your question: http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... 20-6.0-CE/

By the way, if I remember correctly, PAE will also run, but it is of no use on <4G RAM machines.
It will be like noPAE.

This was on the old forum (which is down) and may be of intrest for you (link to cache from google):
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=be

I have used Tahr on a similar machine some years ago, also Wary5.5.
But both are getting old.
I would recommend dpup Stretch from radky now.
Maybe Slacko6.9.9.10 from norgo for a newer Slacko.
Look in the Puppy Derivatives section.
.

[darry19662018]

Some machines will allow the force-pae option like my old thinkpad t42.

[mikewalsh]

There is, of course, the issue of which Pentium M you're saddled with. From what you say about needing to use "forcepae" with Lubuntu, I'd hazard a guess you've got the earlier 'Banias' variant. These did have PAE, but for some crazy reason, the way Intel built them they didn't advertise this fact to the OS....

Hence the 'Dothan' revision.....where everything behaved itself, and worked as expected!

Personally, for a box of this vintage - even older than my own elderly Dell Inspiron, an original P4-powered 1100 from 2002 - and with only 512 MB RAM, I'd respectfully suggest taking a look at Precise 571. I think Tahrpup might struggle on there.

The only snag with recommendations is that often those that do so don't actually have experience with equipment quite that old. I do, and make this recommendation from personal experience.....

Precise 5.7.1 can be found here:-

http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/precise-5.7.1/

PAE-only, but it'll run sweetly on there.....though you'll like as not need the --forcepae flag on the kernel line. The Precise-retro version contains a shed-load of firmware for older routers/modems, etc.

If you decide to try it, let us know how you get on, please.


Mike.

[rockedge]

why not swap in a no-PAE kernel in Tahr which should run okay on this older machine. I would give Lucid 5.2.8 in a no-PAE configuration a try out as well.
Lucid works well on my IBM T-42 ThinkPad. I had Xenial and Tahr with no-PAE kernels running nicely on it.

[cobaka]

@grandmaslaptop:

I have a really old laptop from 2001 that needs refreshing. I researched and found puppy Linux and lubuntu, which seems like the best choices. From what I found, tahrpup was the most suiting for low-ram pc’s, just what I need. I tried lubuntu, bypassed PAE with ‘forcepae’ and tried it. Wasn’t for me.

I can't help specifically.
I run a Dell Inspiron with a Pentium 'M'.
The CPU: Pentium M - close if not the same as your CPU.
Came with 500MiB or RAM - I upgraded to 2GiB. Your max RAM is 1GiB.

On the topic of memeory: can't say this item will help you, but it's a clue: www.ebay.com.au/itm/223973007115
BTW - I have nothing to do with this item.

What I did:
Dell came (If I remember correctly) with 512GiB of RAM.
I added a 4-port hub and run an external USB kbd and mouse.
(I hate laptop keyboards!! Hate!!) I use the two USB ports on Dell as: (1) USB hub (2) USB boot drive.
In the hub: (1) kbd (2) mouse (3) thumb-drive. (4) spare slot.

Getting uPupBB running. Using a desktop I started with the uPupBB 32bit ISO (ie 19.03)
BionicPup32-8.0-uefi. Cannot remember the process used to install the OS BUT I wrote it "somewhere".
If you run into trouble: let me know. When I boot Dell/8600 I MUST use the built-in keyboard to type -- forcepae. The keyboard on the hub does not work (until The Puppy is running).

The Pentium M has no PAE instruction - as you wrote.
I MUST 'step' around the missing PAE instruction (in the Pentium M). (as you wrote).
How do I 'step around' the missing PAE hardware? When booting I get a 10 second interruption and (during this interval) I tap "TAB". The cursor (and input line) moves to the btm of the screen.
I type -- forcepae. (You know generally about this. Note: TWO dashes followed by 'space')
But 'yes' I run uPupBB-32 on the Dell 8600. It's not a rocket, but it works.

And the Dell performance? I can watch youtube videos while using the bash command-line. Browser: Light, as supplied with uPupBB-32.

Here some of the specs for your machine:
Fujitsu Amilo-M1425 Laptop
CPU: Intel Mobile Pentium M 1.5GHz - 1.9GHz
Memory Type: PC2700 333MHz DDR SDRAM
Standard Memory: 256MB, 512MB (removable)
Max Memory: 1GB
Memory Expansion Slots: 2 Sockets
Memory Size: 200 Pin
USB Ports: Three USB 2.0 Compliant Ports

Your laptop will work. Can't say if it will run uPupBB-32.
It will probably work - but may run too slow to be practical.
I'm interested in what happens. Keep us informed.

All the best!

Cobaka.

[grandmaslaptop]

There is, of course, the issue of which Pentium M you're saddled with. From what you say about needing to use "forcepae" with Lubuntu, I'd hazard a guess you've got the earlier 'Banias' variant. These did have PAE, but for some crazy reason, the way Intel built them they didn't advertise this fact to the OS....

Hence the 'Dothan' revision.....where everything behaved itself, and worked as expected!

Personally, for a box of this vintage - even older than my own elderly Dell Inspiron, an original P4-powered 1100 from 2002 - and with only 512 MB RAM, I'd respectfully suggest taking a look at Precise 571. I think Tahrpup might struggle on there.

The only snag with recommendations is that often those that do so don't actually have experience with equipment quite that old. I do, and make this recommendation from personal experience.....

Precise 5.7.1 can be found here:-

http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/precise-5.7.1/

PAE-only, but it'll run sweetly on there.....though you'll like as not need the --forcepae flag on the kernel line. The Precise-retro version contains a shed-load of firmware for older routers/modems, etc.

If you decide to try it, let us know how you get on, please.


Mike.

I searched it up and I’ll probably give it a go! In the meantime while waiting for answers I went back to lubuntu, this time an older version (14.04) and it seems to be running okay. Firefox launches in 8 seconds which I find impressive. If this version of puppy you recommended is even faster I would definitely keep it. For my very old machine do you think the retro build will work better?

EDIT: Installed the retro, it was super fast! If it wasn’t the retro one I should have went for please tell me.

[bigpup]

why not swap in a no-PAE kernel in Tahr which should run okay on this older machine. I would give Lucid 5.2.8 in a no-PAE configuration a try out as well.
Lucid works well on my IBM T-42 ThinkPad. I had Xenial and Tahr with no-PAE kernels running nicely on it.

Tahrpup 6.0.5 already has iso's of pae or no pae to download.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... 20-6.0-CE/

[mikewalsh]

why not swap in a no-PAE kernel in Tahr which should run okay on this older machine. I would give Lucid 5.2.8 in a no-PAE configuration a try out as well.
Lucid works well on my IBM T-42 ThinkPad. I had Xenial and Tahr with no-PAE kernels running nicely on it.

Tahrpup 6.0.5 already has iso's of pae or no pae to download.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... 20-6.0-CE/

Oh aye, agreed; it does. but I still think even a no-PAE version of Tahr will struggle on there. While I appreciate you like to recommend folks use the newest version they possibly can (no bad idea!), this thing's from 2001; that means a very early, almost pre-production release of the very first generation of Pentium Ms, and, well; I'm sorry to have to say it, but those things were next to useless.

Still, the OP says Lubuntu 14.04 runs OK on there - that's the "Trusty" release - along with FF opening quite swiftly. You could be right, you could be right. The only thing grandmaslaptop can do is to try 'em all out (those that have been recommended in this thread). Even DPup Stretch ought to be viable, it's just the low amount of RAM that's the sticking-point, really.....

We'll see.


Mike.

[bigpup]

Speaking of low RAM.
It will probably help to have a swap partition or swap file.

Keep to only running one program at a time.

Also, look in menu->System->Boot Manager->Startup->Choose what system services to run at startup
Some of them are not needed, but be sure you know what you are selecting.
Example stuff not really needed most of the time:
cups ->only if you need to access a printer.
Bluetooth
sys logger
etc......

[grandmaslaptop]

UPDATE:

It was working fine (I’m using precise 5.7.1) until I booted it after shutting it off. It started fresh instead of booting with my precisesave.2fs. If I open sda1 on it I can see that it did create the save file and stores it in /mnt/home along with puppy_precise_5.7.1.sfs. Before shutting of and creating the save I did the full install and clicked the ext2 that should have more storage but not as power failure safe as the other two. I’m completely new to Linux so more help is appreciated.

EDIT: I’m going to try frugal install instead. It seems like there’s more help available for that version.

EDIT 2: Before I got to tried that, I discovered that it finds the save when booting from CD. What can I do to make it find the save without having the cd in?

[rockedge]

Hello!
Your Puppy doesn't sound like it is installed on the partition (HDD) correctly. Should be a simple thing to do though, please show us what your /mnt/sda1 looks like.

I recommend to do a "frugal"install which is actually the type of installation that really shows Puppy Linux's power and what it's capable of.

1. Boot your machine with the CD version
2. open /mnt/sda1 and create a directory, for example /mnt/sda1/Precise571
3. open the directory and copy the contents of the CD-ROM into the directory /mnt/sda1/Precise571
4. copy or move the Puppy Savefile to the directory /mnt/sda1/Precise571
5. run Grub4Dos from the menu and let the program search the drive with sda1. Ok and exit. A menu and the boot loader are now ready.
6. remove the CD-ROM from the drive and reboot the computer

At boot a new menu should appear which you can select or just let timeout and the fresh Precise571 will (should is the key word here) now boot from the HDD.

or so round about!

[grandmaslaptop]

Thanks. I will try this now. But since I have already made a full install, won’t installing a frugal create a second install instead of replacing the old one? The reason I wonder is because it says that it can coexist with another distro. I wouldn’t want an extra copy of puppy existing on the hard drive even if it’s not used. Here’s/ a picture of /mnt/sda1.

Edit: It’s working! Now how do I get rid of the other puppy install I can see when booting?

[rockedge]

So there is the full install and the there is a frugal install. The full install will not need a save file since any changes are directly written to the file system. It looks like the full install is booted so to remove the frugal delete the directory /mnt/sda1/precise5.7.1frugal and delete the /mnt/sda1/precisesave.2fs will remove the other Puppy Linux installation.

Although saving /mnt/sda1/precisesave.2fs will mean when you boot Precise from CD-ROM it will have all of your settings and work. It should not interfere with the full install.

[bigpup]

Edit: It’s working! Now how do I get rid of the other puppy install I can see when booting?

Do you want to use the full install or the frugal install?

The full install is all those directories(folders), except the one named precise 5.7.1 frugal.
To keep the frugal install ->Delete all the other directories and only have precise 5.7.1 frugal directory.
To keep the full install ->Delete the precise 5.7.1 frugal directory.

After doing the deletions.
Rerun Grub4dos Config
This will setup the boot loader menu to what is now on the drive.

You can keep both installs.
Just figure out which boot menu entry boots which install.
Having two installs is not a bad idea.
You will always be able to boot, if one install does not boot.
a Precise 5.7.1 frugal install is only going to use around 300MB space, unless you add a bunch of program to it.

Really you are learning Puppy.
Why not use both type of installs and see how they work.

[cobaka]

Hello Puppians:

Regarding an older Puppy for a laptop:

Grandmas laptop says FF on his hardware loaded & ran in 8 seconds.

Impressive!
I ran uPupBB-32 on a Pentium M (1.4GHz, 2GiB RAM, Dell Inspiron 8600).
The browser offered on uPup (Light) took much longer (perhaps 16 seconds) to boot on DELL 8600 hardware.

I boot the Dell using a USB storage device (i.e. a thumb-drive) formatted as ISO9660 and had to manually insert the -- forcepae instruction before uPupBB would boot. (Hint: when the boot options appear, press TAB).

cobaka

[mikeslr]

Did anyone ever specifically answer your question? Sorry, if this is repetitious but (a) I only scanned this thread and didn't find this being mentioned and (b) I need a cup of coffee.

As your computer will run 'pae' kernels when the forcepae argument is used, the question becomes how to implement it under Puppies.

That 's done by adding the command to the bootloader's 'menu' arguments. Under grub4dos, it's added to the 'kernel' line:

e.g. kernel /dpup/vmlinuz OTHER ARGUMENTS forcepae -- forcepae

Under Grub2, Grub-legacy, and as far as I know any bootloader other than grub4dos, its added to the 'linux' line

linux /vmlinuz forcepae -- forcepae

Someone mentioned that the duplication of forcepae wasn't required: -- forcepae being sufficient. Not tested by me because 'it ain't broken' and doesn't take much space.

[grandmaslaptop]

I haven’t deleted anything as of yet, but I will probably delete the full install soon. The ‘precise5.7.1.frugal’ folder only contains one file “ATAHD”. Its opened with text but doesn’t have anything in it (what I can see), is there something missing?

I have another issue though, when scrolling through the JWM Configuration Manager settings I went into Tray Management and changed the ‘Iconify or Verbose in Pager’ selection which made the bottom bar not go all the way, but stop about a third of the way (from the left). When I tried to change it back to what I had before it never wanted did anything. Now it says it always is on ‘Iconify’ even if I change it to Fixed Height it automatically goes back to Iconify without doing anything.

[bigpup]

The ‘precise5.7.1.frugal’ folder only contains one file “ATAHD”.

That is not a frugal install.
So keep the full install, for now.
That folder should have a bunch of files in it.
Everything that is in the precise 5.7.1.iso.

[bigpup]

but I will probably delete the full install soon. The ‘precise5.7.1.frugal’ folder only contains one file “ATAHD”.

Hold on.
Keep the full install, for now.

If that is all that is in the precise5.7.1.frugal folder.
You do not have a frugal install.
All the files, that are in the precise 5.7.1.iso, should be in the folder.

[grandmaslaptop]

Hold on.
Keep the full install, for now.

Darn, I was a little bit too quick and deleted full install folders. I can still boot my save through the Precise571 directory as suggested earlier, but it looks like I can’t properly shutdown or reboot. At the black screen it shows a ‘kernel panic’ has occurred. I guess reinstalling is the best to do now as I have another problem I can’t fix and my original and frugal install was pretty messy considering it wasn’t in the right directory. How do I wipe/overwrite to start fresh?

[rockedge]

put in the CD-ROM and boot from there. Once you are running you can just delete everything on /mnt/sda1

Then please try the frugal install by doing the steps I described earlier. Run Grub4Dos again.
Let us know how you are succeeding

[wiak]

I have a similar machine (not Amilo M1425 but Amilo, Pentium M 740, M1424; I think M1425 has slightly newer Pentium M 745) and I'm pretty sure I often used the M1424 with forcepae kernel line option successfully. Unfortunately, it has been in the 'cupboard' and I can't find the power-supply, but if it turns up I'll report back some time.

I do remember I used to use Guy Dog Puppy (Iguleder) on it - whatever that was... It was a very fast old Puppy version. It was very much my favourite distro for a long time...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=nz

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=nz

https://archive.org/search.php?query=su ... 2guydog%22

I cannot remember if that one used PAE kernel or not, but I am really sure I did use Puppy OS kernel that was pae at some stage and used forcepae successfully.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE

Some mention of forcepae kernel on old Puppy forum (TahrPup 5.8.4):

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=nz

wiak

[darry19662018]

Guydog's kernel is 2.6.39.4

https://web.archive.org/web/20111108022 ... hp?t=72576

[wiak]

Guydog's kernel is 2.6.39.4

https://web.archive.org/web/20111108022 ... hp?t=72576

But I don't know if it was PAE-enabled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_ ... sion#Linux

The Linux kernel includes full PAE-mode support starting with version 2.3.23,[23] in 1999 enabling access of up to 64 GB of memory on 32-bit machines. A PAE-enabled Linux kernel requires that the CPU also support PAE. The Linux kernel supports PAE as a build option and major distributions provide a PAE kernel either as the default or as an option.

Of course a kernel doesn't need to be compiled with PAE enabled and not exactly important for an Amilo with only 512MB RAM...

I think that kernel is fine for such an old laptop as original posters Amilo. The problem likely to arise however, with newish apps, is that GuyDog likely uses a very old glibc version, and similary a very old gtk + version, and these may be too old for the app to function. I guess an old distro like that could be revamped nicely with newer glibc and gtk +

Note, be the way that 2.6.40 seems to be actually same as 3.0.6 stable: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buil ... dID=266719

Changelog * Mon Oct 03 2011 Josh Boyer <jwboyer@redhat.com> 2.6.40.6-0
- Linux 3.0.6 stable release

so kernel 2.6.39 is actually the last of 2 series kernels.

[darry19662018]

I have installed frugally at the moment tried to run a cat proc command - read out and was none the wiser. Only could get that it was smp kernel thats it. s

Being not long after the 4 series It would be pretty safe to bet it run on non-pae machines.

[wiak]

Code: Select all

grep -i pae /proc/cpuinfo

should show pae flag

I tried guydog quickly on my Core2Duo pae-capable for sure machine and pae flag was there...

I 'think' that will mean both the cpu worked with pae (whether by forcepae or simply because it works with pae anyway) AND the kernel had pae-enabled.

However... after playing around with old guydog, great though it is, unfortunately the PPM doesn't seem to have working repos anymore and firefox is too old and too much trouble therefore. Need something a bit newer I guess.

My plan will be to try a special build of WeeDogLinux Void Linux flavour since Void still does 32 bit builds. I'm pretty sure I'll need forcepae for that old Amilo I have though and I'm not sure when I'll get round to this Void build since I'm working on something else right at the moment and have still to locate the power supply for the Amilo...

wiak

[darry19662018]

What about Weedog Slitaz that would run with right kernel wouldn't and it is small?

[grandmaslaptop]

Thanks for the other recommendations, I might try them in the future but I believe Precise 5.7.1 will be what I’ll stick to. Regarding looks, I would like to import a nice gtk 2 theme. I don’t know how I would go to do this or where. I’m looking for a modern dark look with square windows (not like the ugly rounded edges which come with the defaults). I am away atm so I won’t be testing anything for a week, but tips before that is appreciated so I can look into it.

Also: Is it worth updating/replacing the included old opera to the latest version with support for x32 linux (https://ftp.opera.com/ftp/pub/opera/des ... 898/linux/)?