PuppyLinux Bootable Stick Interferes With Main Drive

[bigpup]

If you used a running BookwormPup64 10.0.7 and used Frugalpup Installer that is in it.
You did use V41 of Frugalpup installer.

Something you could try just to see if it affects this.

Run the Frugalpup installer ->Boot

when asked what type boot loader to install.

Choose both.

It will install every type for UEFI bios and legacy bios booting.

Only thing you may see when selecting from the list of boot devices.
More than one listed for the same USB. (2 different boot loaders on the USB cause this)
Depending on the bios setup.
One listed will work and the other one will not.

[JusGellin]

@bigpup @williwaw
So I've been using Frugalpup 41 all along. It's also in BookwormPup64_10.0.6

When I install a fugal install of BookwormPup64_10.0.7,
I use GParted from the Live iso menu
Partition 1 300MB Fat32 for the EFI with flags boot,esp
Partition 2 Full drive ext4

The install is simple:
Then I use the Frugalpup to select Puppy and then after select Boot.

I do this for the main drive and also for making a frugal USB drive

Whenever I attach the frugal USB to the computers, it boots the USB no matter if it is selected or even if it is disabled.
If the USB is disconnected, the computer boots from its internal drive.

It doesn't happen for making the computer a dual boot with a Linux controlling the boot.

@bigpup I usually let the type of boot loader pick all of the selections.

Can this be done for attaching a USB BW Pup to a computer using BW Pup to work properly for bootups?

Thanks,

[JusGellin]

I have another observation for this:
I have a bootable BW USB attached on boot
Even though I've disabled USB Boot, the USB boots up.

Yet when I run efibootmgr everything looks like you would expect it should be:

Code: Select all

# efibootmgr
BootCurrent:  001
Timeout: 0 seconds
BootOrder:  001,002
Boot001* UEFI: SK hynix SC308 SATA 512GB, Partition 1
Boot002  UEFI: Pny USB 3.2.1 FD PMAP, Partition 1
#

Here it shows just like I expect it such that BootCurrent: 001 should be the one that boots (but doesn't)
Then Boot001* indicates the hard drive is enabled for boot
Boo002 indicates the USB is disabled.

It's just with the puppies singly installed on a computer and on a usb attached that seems to have the same problem even on different computers.

Thanks

[JusGellin]

I installed F96-CE_4 on the computer.
It had the same results as BW.

Either I'm not doing something right or that is probably just how puppys work.
I guess no one else wanted to do this.

[williwaw]

I have another observation for this:
I have a bootable BW USB attached on boot
Even though I've disabled USB Boot, the USB boots up.................

It's just with the puppies singly installed on a computer and on a usb attached that seems to have the same problem even on different computers.

Thanks

this boot when usb is disabled behavior.....

you can duplicate on multiple machines? how many different machines?

if so, either its puppy or multiple machine bios.

Are you able to wipe a disk clean and try with diskpup? In order to see if this is a fault in bookwormpup or the diskpup feature in frugalpup supplied by bookwormpup
If so you could eliminate gparted from the work flow.

[JusGellin]

@williwaw

I found the installers in the BW menu called FrugalPupinstallers (BW uses v41).
For the internal drive I selected DiskPup to install BW 10.0.7 using Ventoy.
I had to create partitions first
gpt partition table
Partition 1 - fat32 300MB, flags - boot and esp
Partition 2 - ext4 for the rest of the drive
Selected DiskPup to install BW10.0.7

For the USB I selected 4StickPup to install BW 10.0.6 using Ventoy.

I ran tests to see what gets booted with the USB connected using the computer boot menu.

1. Selected the internal drive from the computer boot menu
a. Connected USB with BW 10.0.6 -rebooted:
BW 10.0.6 booted up. - wrong
b. Connected USB with Ventoy - rebooted:
BW 10.0.7 - correct

2. Disabled computer USB boot in bios setting:
a. Connected USB with BW 10.0.6 - rebooted:
BW 10.0.6 booted up - wrong
b. Connected USB with Ventoy - rebooted:
BW 10.0.7 - correct

3. Enabled computer USB boot again in computer bios setting and selected USB from computer boot menu
a. Connected USB with BW 10.0.6 - rebooted:
BW 10.0.6 booted up - correct
b. Connected USB with Ventoy - rebooted:
Ventoy came up - correct

Wrong:
So anytime the USB BW 10.0.6 (It didn't matter what version I also tried 10.0.7,and 10.0.2) is connected to the computer and booted,
the USB boots up e.g. If computer selected, USB boots; if USB selected USB boots; if computer disables USB boot then USB still booted.

Correct:
Anytime USB Ventoy is connected to the computer and booted,
The proper device is booted e.g. If computer selected, computer boots; if USB selected USB is booted; if computer disable USB boot then only computer is booted.

I also ran efibootmgr each time to see what the computer saw.
This matched what was supposed to be selected as well.

Let me know if I need to make this more clear.

Thanks

[williwaw]

@williwaw

I found the installers in the BW menu called FrugalPupinstallers (BW uses v41).
For the internal drive I selected DiskPup to install BW 10.0.7 using Ventoy.
I had to create partitions first
gpt partition table

using ventoy.... I assume you mean your were booted into a usb that boots a bookworm iso using ventoy. If so that shoulldnt seem to matter.

when you had to create partitions, diskpup walked you thru some partitioning steps? so you are working within the supplied installer. Perhaps if you are willing to try again with diskpup, choose msdos/mbr instead of gpt. what other choices are you asked to make in diskpup?

@gyrog might have some ideas about this problem.

[dimkr]

If you're booting from the ISO, the default menu entry in the ISO has pmedia=cd and that will make it search all partitions for Puppy files. If you have the same Puppy version on multiple partitions, it will use the first (which is more likely to be an internal drive).

[JusGellin]

when you had to create partitions, diskpup walked you thru some partitioning steps? so you are working within the supplied installer. Perhaps if you are willing to try again with diskpup, choose msdos/mbr instead of gpt. what other choices are you asked to make in diskpup?

When I ran diskpup from BW, it didn't ask anything about partitions. I had to do that manually with gparted.
I found frugalpup-41.pet from one of the links you referred to and installed it to try again. It also didn't ask anything about partitions.
So is there another diskpup you want me to use?

[JusGellin]

If you're booting from the ISO, the default menu entry in the ISO has pmedia=cd and that will make it search all partitions for Puppy files. If you have the same Puppy version on multiple partitions, it will use the first (which is more likely to be an internal drive).

When I did this for the internal drive, it made pmedia=atahd. The USB made it pmedia=usbhd

For the USB I made it BookwormPup_10.0.6 and the internal drive 10.0.7

[JusGellin]

@williwaw
Choosing msdos/mbr didn't help. Again, I had to use gparted to do this.

Using BW's DiskpPup only set it up for the frugal installation.

[JusGellin]

I tried this on yet another different laptop - Lenovo ideapad 100S-11IBY
It does the same thing - i.e. boots the USB drive that has BW 10.0.6 instead of the internal drive, that also has BW 10.0.6 when the USB is connected.
The internal drive has pmedia=ataflash in its grub.cfg.

Running efibootmgr, indicates the internal drive should be booted, but the USB is booted instead.

[williwaw]

@williwaw
Choosing msdos/mbr didn't help. Again, I had to use gparted to do this.

Using BW's DiskpPup only set it up for the frugal installation.

sorry for the poor advice. I last used e4StickPup instead of diskpup.
can you explain in more detail about the steps you take with gparted?

[JusGellin]

@williwaw
When I bring up GParted, I usually Create a Partition Table to gpt.
Set new partition of 300MB as fat32 with flags boot and esp
Set remainder of drive to ext4

[JusGellin]

I tested using Lubuntu on the internal drive and the same version (22.04.3) of Lubuntu on a USB stick.
This was to see if having the same version of another Linux would do the same thing.

It worked properly.
If I selected the internal drive to boot, that would boot.
If I disabled the USB boot than just the internal drive would boot.

One thing I noticed was how slow using mainline Linux was compared to puppy Linux, especially on a USB stick!!

[williwaw]

@williwaw
When I bring up GParted, I usually Create a Partition Table to gpt.
Set new partition of 300MB as fat32 with flags boot and esp
Set remainder of drive to ext4

When you install lubunto, I suppose the default action let the lubunto installer reformat the disk. If you let it reformat, then you will have wiped out whatever you did with gparted and thus not be able to tell if the problem was with the formatting with gparted or bookworm.
There should be a way to install it to a partition such that it doesnt reformat the disk and direct the lubunto installer to use the exisiting bootloader.
so
you could reformat with gparted, add a bootloader and bookworm with diskpup as before, and then do a custom install of lubunto to the newly made partition to see the problems lies with bookworm and if your gparted workflow is correct.

if the custom lubunto install deletes the bookworm folder, it can be added back manually.
at least we know it is not the bios. its all just a process of elimination.

btw, what version of grub do you see when you boot lubunto?

[JusGellin]

@williwaw
Ok, I first installed BW like usual with the two partitions.
Then I installed Lubuntu.
It gave 4 selections:
Install alongside * I chose this one
Replace a partition
Erase disk
Manual partitioning

It shrank the second partition and added that as a new partition for Lubuntu

After the install I let it boot. All it would boot was Lubuntu. No selection to boot BW
The first partition, the efi partition looks to be the same with no obvious changes.
The grub.cfg is the same for the pup.

The second partition is the same that BW made with its folder

The third partition is the Lubuntu partition. It has a boot/grub folder to a grub.cfg that has the Lubuntu selection, but no BW menu.

So does this tell you anything useful other than Lubuntu took over and ignored BW.
It does boot properly with a BW USB attached.

I wonder how does it take over and boot to itself?

I hope this helps you see something.

Thanks

[williwaw]

@williwaw
Ok, I first installed BW like usual with the two partitions.
Then I installed Lubuntu.
It gave 4 selections:
Install alongside * I chose this one
Replace a partition
Erase disk
Manual partitioning

It shrank the second partition and added that as a new partition for Lubuntu

After the install I let it boot. All it would boot was Lubuntu. No selection to boot BW
The first partition, the efi partition looks to be the same with no obvious changes.
The grub.cfg is the same for the pup.

The second partition is the same that BW made with its folder

The third partition is the Lubuntu partition. It has a boot/grub folder to a grub.cfg that has the Lubuntu selection, but no BW menu.

So does this tell you anything useful other than Lubuntu took over and ignored BW.
It does boot properly with a BW USB attached.

I wonder how does it take over and boot to itself?

I hope this helps you see something.

Thanks

if it is now booting with a grub.cfg located in the newly created partition, look and see what has changed in the grub.cfg that diskpup created

you could try adding your bookworm stanza to the new lubunto created grub.cfg

[JusGellin]

if it is now booting with a grub.cfg located in the newly created partition, look and see what has changed in the grub.cfg that diskpup created

you could try adding your bookworm stanza to the new lubunto created grub.cfg

It works correctly by using it's own grub. Its grub is version 2.06

The Lubuntu menu has a lot of stuff in it. I'm too inexperienced to find what is important.

Would this mean that the boot manager for Puppy Linux is the problem since Lubuntu is using its own boot manager?

Thanks

[williwaw]

if it is now booting with a grub.cfg located in the newly created partition, look and see what has changed in the grub.cfg that diskpup created

you could try adding your bookworm stanza to the new lubunto created grub.cfg

It works correctly by using it's own grub. Its grub is version 2.06

The Lubuntu menu has a lot of stuff in it. I'm too inexperienced to find what is important.

Would this mean that the boot manager for Puppy Linux is the problem since Lubuntu is using its own boot manager?

Thanks

before editing your lubunto grub.cfg make a backup
The idea is to insert your earlier bookworm stanza into the lubunto grub.cfg, but you could also post both grub.cfgs and let others take a look.

[JusGellin]

Here's the grub.cfg from BookwormPup_10.0.7 and Lubuntu

[williwaw]

Here's the grub.cfg from BookwormPup_10.0.7 and Lubuntu

back up the lubuntu grub.cfg
looking at lines 167 thru 203 in grub.cfg-lubuntu, I see the first menuentry.
After the } on line 203 hit enter and on the new blank line 204 select, copy and paste
this code from the bookworm grub.cfg and hit enter again and save.

Code: Select all

menuentry "Puppy dpupbw64 10.0.7" {
  insmod ext2
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root aa5b2a0a-f5f1-44c2-aa1c-561bc5db7b72
  echo "Loading vmlinuz"
  linux /BookwormPup64_10.0.7/vmlinuz net.ifnames=0 pmedia=atahd pdrv=main psubdir=/BookwormPup64_10.0.7 pfix=fsck,fsckp,trim TZ=GMT0
  if [ -e /BookwormPup64_10.0.7/local-initrd.gz ]; then
    set local_rd=/BookwormPup64_10.0.7/local-initrd.gz
  else
    set local_rd=
  fi
  if [ -e /BookwormPup64_10.0.7/ucode.cpio ]; then
    set ucode_rd=/BookwormPup64_10.0.7/ucode.cpio
    echo "Loading ucode.cpio and initrd.gz"
  else
    set ucode_rd=
    echo "Loading initrd.gz"
  fi
  initrd $ucode_rd /BookwormPup64_10.0.7/initrd.gz $local_rd
}

(btw, this is not the way lubunto reccomends to edit the file, but for testing purposes lets see what happens)

[JusGellin]

I added what you showed and rebooted Lubuntu.
No boot menu came up.
It booted into Lubuntu.

I had to modify /etc/default/grub according to another internet posting to bring up the Lubuntu boot menu - Before I tried <ESC> when it came up
which made a grub menu come up empty so added this and then did a sudo update-grub:

Code: Select all

GRUB_TIMEOUT=5
GRUB_DEFAULT=0
GRUB_DISABLE_RECOVERY=true
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT='modules=sd-mod,usb-storage,etc quiet rootfstype=ext4"

It brought up the Lubuntu boot menu, but it didn't include the puppy menu.

I looked at the /boot/grub/grub.cfg.
It was missing the modifcation.
I copied the modified grub.cfg and did a sudo update-grub again and rebooted
Again it was missing.

Followed the grub.cfg to modify /etc/grub.d/40_custom instead.
Added the Puppy change you gave me to this file.
Performed update-grub from Lubuntu again and rebooted.

This time the Lubuntu boot menu included the Pup entry.
This worked to get into BW boot successfully now using Lubuntu.

Attaching frugal installed BookwormPup64_10.0.7 on a USB stick on bootup with this works like it should using Lubuntu grub.
I tested all the different ways by selecting different boots as before and this all worked correctly.

What can be done with puppy linux boot to make it work like this as well?
I hope we can get to there.

Thanks

[williwaw]

It brought up the Lubuntu boot menu, but it didn't include the puppy menu.

I looked at the /boot/grub/grub.cfg.
It was missing the modifcation.
I copied the modified grub.cfg and did a sudo update-grub again and rebooted
Again it was missing.

Followed the grub.cfg to modify /etc/grub.d/40_custom instead.
Added the Puppy change you gave me to this file.
Performed update-grub from Lubuntu again and rebooted.

This time the Lubuntu boot menu included the Pup entry.

making the edit to /etc/grub.d/40_custom is the lubuntu proper way to have custom entries persist. as it rewrites grub.cfg frequently when you update lubuntu and will loose manual edits

some folks who maintain full installs that utilize automatic grub updating and that share bootloaders with puppy just use the other OS bootloader.

What can be done with puppy linux boot to make it work like this as well?
I hope we can get to there.

if you do not want to neccesarily keep a big distro around just to have a working grub, try this.
rename the grub.cfg in the lubuntu boot folder to temporaliy get it out of the boot process and copy the entire puppy grub.cfg to the lubuntu boot folder.
if this boots puppy correctly one could always delete the other lubuntu folders keeping the frugal bookworm folder and /boot (as modified)

this doesnt fix puppy for others with the same problem tho.
did you have a chance to try the frugalpup grub update mentioned earlier?

[JusGellin]

some folks who maintain full installs that utilize automatic grub updating and that share bootloaders with puppy just use the other OS bootloader.

How could I do that? That sounds interesting.

if you do not want to neccesarily keep a big distro around just to have a working grub, try this.
rename the grub.cfg in the lubuntu boot folder to temporaliy get it out of the boot process and copy the entire puppy grub.cfg to the lubuntu boot folder.
if this boots puppy correctly one could always delete the other lubuntu folders keeping the frugal bookworm folder and /boot (as modified)

I'm going to try this.

did you have a chance to try the frugalpup grub update mentioned earlier?

I did try that. It was the same version that BW had.

Thanks for going through this with me. It's helped me to understand more about this.

[JusGellin]

@williwaw
Is this a bug with pups that should be reported?

Thanks

[williwaw]

@williwaw
Is this a bug with pups that should be reported?

Thanks

the update mentioned earlier is for 2.03 and 2.04 to 2.06
viewtopic.php?t=10028

and your lubuntu is 2.06 seemed to make the difference?

I would doublecheck your frugalpup41 disk pup install as supplied in bookworm is in fact (or not) installing 2.06 and if not, update accordingly and test.

the frugalpup development thread for mentioning the need for the latest is
viewtopic.php?t=337

[JusGellin]

@williwaw
Using Ventoy to install isos:
When installing BW 10.0.6 then rebooting to get the GRUB menu, it gives GNU GRUB version 2.03
When installing BW 10.0.7 then rebooting to the the GRUB menu, it gives GNU GRUB version 2.06
I'm determining this when the GRUB menu comes up from the iso

BW 10.0.7 is the GRUB version I used with Lubuntu which should match the versions to 2.06
BW used the same version and still didn't work correctly. So still it seems Lubuntu boot manager made it work.

A while back I've done this also using a dual boot of BW 10.0.6 and Alpine Linux like this. The dual boot there also worked.

What is a command line to get the GRUB version in BW?

You wanted to narrow it down for the cause of the problem with BW and it still seems to be BW Pup causing it.

But I'm still very new at this and could be wrong.

Thanks

[JusGellin]

@williwaw
I'll have to retract what I said in the last post. I guess I'm just doing all of this too many times.

I looked again to see what the newly installed BW 10.0.7 showed for the GRUB menu - its. 2.03. I've reinstalled several times and even
installed the pet from the link you gave. It always shows 2.03.

But when the iso comes up for installing it does indicate 2.06.
I'm not sure how to correct the install of BW 10.0.7 to use the 2.06 version.
Could the iso be using Ventoy's GRUB which is 2.06?

How can I get the GRUB version from the command line?
I tried the Linux command grub-install --version that works with Lubuntu to get the GRUB version in BW , but it doesn't work.
How can I find what GRUB version was used when BW boots by itself?

Thanks

[williwaw]

I'm not sure how to correct the install of BW 10.0.7 to use the 2.06 version.

from the other page with the update

It could be extracted directly into the root of the fat32 boot partition.

open a terminal in the directory with your downloaded grub2.tar.gz
you can do this by finding the download in the rox file manager, then
rightclick inside the rox window, scrolldown to "window" and select "terminal here"

if your mounted fat32 boot partition is '/mnt/sdd1' you could use a terminal command like:

be sure your fat32 partition is mounted by clicking on the icon in the lower left of the screen and run the command

Code: Select all

tar xf grub2.tar.gz --overwrite -C /mnt/sdd1

running this command will update your existing grub2

Could the iso be using Ventoy's GRUB which is 2.06?

ventoy is just a bootloader that uses grub2, and apparently your ventoy version has 2.06. It is a hack of grub2 that adds some of its own code.
btw, grub2 (without ventoy) can also boot iso's with a slightly different boot stanza