Portable Apps as Built-in's

[AQUAR]

Nooby pondering - so beware.

Currently I am setting up F96-CE for my needs, and one critical need is to be able to use the very latest version of mainline firefox.
There is the portable version from mikewalsh that works very well (it can update itself and is almost up to date OOTB).
I wondered about the Pro's or Con's if I added this portable to the save file and then including it as a builtin during a remaster.
Obviously its no longer a portable in the intended sense, its just installed as a read only portable in the puppy SFS file with updates going into the save file.
Is there anything else I should be aware of?

Interestingly F96-CE comes with firefox ESR installed and looking at that I note it too happens to be the portable version.
Gives me confidence that it isn't non-typical to do this.

[mikewalsh]

@AQUAR :-

Well, as I always repeat whenever I publish any new portable, once it's downloaded/unzipped, it's entirely up to the user as to where they decide to put it. It doesn't matter where in the system it's located, it will still work.....and the menu scripts provided will still link-up and create a functional Menu entry.

However; the whole idea of these 'portables' - and the idea was kicking around the community long before I got my "paws" on it, largely thanks to the inspirational work from @fredx181 - is to keep the bulk (if not the whole) of any program you wish to use OUTSIDE the 'save'. I'm not saying it's an idea that would appeal to everyone - quite a few here have made it clear over the last few years that they don't see the point of all this "unnecessary" messing-about; why not use the package management system, since it's there? - but I happen to think it's a neat way of tackling (and maintaining) the whole concept of a 'lean, mean save-file/folder'......which was always one of the 'core' concepts of Puppy. The fact that I keep producing them shows that I have a belief that, for Puppy, they're a good fit.

Others will - and indeed, do - have their own views on this. And of course, YMMV. It's not my place to influence the way others use their machines. I just produce these 'portables', and make them available. If you want to use them, do so; if you don't, then don't. Simple as that.....but I don't THINK I'm wasting my time.

Mike.

[AQUAR]

@mikewalsh

I am sure many appreciate your effort, as you can see for yourself from the many responses about your portables.
Linux is a strange OS for those coming from M$ windows (it really is!, but the reverse probably is true as well).
So the fact that you can place these portables in any location, launch them and then if its not liked simply delete it, makes it a little easier for those trying out Puppy Linux and desired applications (especially when old aged like me).
I have no idea how the Linux Buffs perceive the Linux fitness level of these portables, only thing that matters to casual users is - is it easy to "install - delete" and does it "work" .

With both Firefox ESR and Mainline being "installed" as portables I can run side by side instances. Not sure if that is possible if you used installers for both versions without creating some conflict.
For my purpose I will only have a save file big enough to allow for some preference changes and for updates by permission, if more is needed I can always add another portable and run it from anywhere.

[mikeslr]

While you can, I'd suggest something else.

Web-browsers are applications you most frequently will want to update. Mike's portables make that easy and are configured to download web-cache into their portable folder. You can locate a portable in /opt before remastering. But you'll loose those advantages. The only thing gained is that your browser will be available if you choose to set puppy up to boot pfix=ram (PupMode5) which does not make use of any SaveFile/Folder and runs 'completely in RAM'.

What I suggest is don't include any web-browser in the Remaster. You're running F96 which has amethyst's nicOS-Utility-Suite builtin. After remastering, setup firefox to run from /opt. Then run the Save2SFS module of that Suite to 'capture' your current configuration in an adrv.sfs. Located next to your other system files an adrv.sfs will be copied into RAM at bootup and have priority over other system files. You can still run pfix=ram. And with only one application in the adrv it is easy to update (as and when) by again using the Save2SFS module.

You can create two boot menu entries: one pfix=ram and the other not so that any SaveFile/Folder you create --including those to firefox-- will be in it and used. [Such change can include moving the cache-download folder out of /opt to /mnt/home and symlinking it back]. Boot pfix=ram when you want to run completely in RAM, not when not. As and when you want to update firefox, again run pfix=ram and update firefox, run Save2SFS and substitute the new adrv for the old.

[mikewalsh]

@AQUAR :-

TBH, when I say you can install these things anywhere, I mean just that. Literally.

These things are just as happy to run from a suitably Linux-formatted flash drive. You can carry them in your pocket, and share them between multiple machines/Puppies.

If you're intending to put your re-mastered Puppy on a USB flash drive, set the drive up first, with a FAT32 UEFI boot partition if required, and Puppy preferably inside its own, 'frugal' directory on the second partition.....then copy the portable Firefox to anywhere else on that drive, so long as it's outside the 'save'. /Mnt/home - alongside all the Puppy 'system' SFS files, vmlinuz, zdrv, adrv, etc - is a good location (this of course doesn't exist until Puppy IS installed). Or, anywhere outside the frugal install directory will work just as well.

The way the MenuAdd/Remove scripts have been constructed, the Menu entry stuff will always point to wherever the 'portable' resides. IF you decide to move it at any stage, remember to remove the Menu entry first with the MenuRemove script. Move it to wherever you want it, then re-add the Menu entry again with MenuAdd. This is necessary because the $PATH will have changed in the meantime.

Any further queries, ask away; that's what we're here for. We LIKE helping new users to get the most out of their Puppies!

Mike.

[bigpup]

Currently I am setting up F96-CE for my needs, and one critical need is to be able to use the very latest version of mainline firefox.

The Firefox that is in F96-CE_4 is Firefox ESR version.
It is easily updated by using it's internal update feature.

It is the latest version of Firefox, but the ESR version, which is more made sure to be very stable.
It also gets the needed updates.

Differences Between Firefox and Firefox ESR
https://itigic.com/differences-between- ... refox-esr/

I just updated it to version 115.14

From that web site link:

Other features

Although its main feature is long-term support, this is not the only feature provided by this branch of the browser. The ESR version is a version that has more privacy compared to the other editions, since it is focused on companies. In it we can see an improved tracking blocking system, as well as support for DNS over HTTPS activated by default./quote]

[AQUAR]

While you can, I'd suggest something else.

Oh boy, that suggestion is going to require some digestion of all those puppy OS operational mechanics.
I will do some more reading to see if I can come to grips with this suggestion.

Meanwhile I had a question in mind to ask mikewalsh about the portable, but no need to ask as it was already answered just above.

I'll just make several usb flash drives copies with the same status quo, and proceed with "adding" firefox portable by trialing the different approaches possible.
I am not to fussed with the short delay when firefox loads into ram when called from outside an .SFS file, but then again.

Edit: Found this description of the file system structure at https://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/f ... ystem.html.
Presume its still valid, and it's a start to understand some of the terminology / processes at play (like pup_rw in this nicOS-Utility-Suite).

[AQUAR]

Currently I am setting up F96-CE for my needs, and one critical need is to be able to use the very latest version of mainline firefox.

The Firefox that is in F96-CE_4 is Firefox ESR version.
It is easily updated by using it's internal update feature.

It is the latest version of Firefox, but the ESR version, which is more made sure to be very stable.
It also gets the needed updates.

For sure, and I will keep it as part of the puppy installation along side with the mainline portable.
I need browser options to maintain connectivity compatibility to some institutions that bork if you are not using up to date mainstream browsers.
For that reason I am interested in having the Edge browser installed as well.
On the Edge browser (the .deb package) it was working well with "run-as-spot" but then for some reason it started to freeze the OS.
When I changed to "no-sandbox" edge seems to work properly again.
Going to redo the install from scratch in a new save file and see what happens.

Other less mainstream browsers like PaleMoon simply will not load the necessary web pages.

Edit: The reinstall of Edge was working fine with "run-as-spot" but something breaks it.

[AQUAR]

While you can, I'd suggest something else.

Mike's portables make that easy and are configured to download web-cache into their portable folder.

I use a desktop PC that dates back to the days of the first gen I7 cpu (when I was still interested in building things from components!).
My apologies for not informing the way I use puppy linux viz, frugal install on a syslinux mbr, fat32 formatted, usb flash drive on a usb 2 port.
The Gigabyte MOBO has a bios that only boots from its USB 2 ports - so read/write to a frugal install on a USB flash drive is very slow.

Locating the portable on the USB Flash drive (or as you guys say mounted in /mnt/home) my new issue is that the web pages using the portable take a long time to load.
Might this be due to web-cache being written to the flash drive and slowing things down?
I normally think of cache being in system RAM to speed things up, but I guess from the above comment must also be normally on the HDD for user applications like browsers.

Placing the portable in the /opt directory changes the impractically slow behavior of loading web pages back to its normal speedy response.

[AQUAR]

Run the Save2SFS module of that Suite to 'capture' your current configuration in an adrv.sfs.

This way is of interest to me but I obviously am missing some critical understanding of what is possible as the results are not as expected when I try.

What I did:
Remaster with the remasterme2 script (didn't realize there was a thread on this) - and all is well.
Created a save file (1GB) and rebooted with it - all good.
Installed the Edge.deb and modified the .desktop file to make Edge run as Spot - works fine.
Run the nicOS untility save2sfs to create an adrv.sfs.
As I have no adrv.sfs present in the remaster it should only have the Edge application if I understand the purpose.
Reboot with the new adrv.sfs and no savefile but Edge doesn't run.
The application binary doesn't seem to be present in /usr/bin but the /opt does have a Microsoft folder with Edge content.

What am I missing in the process?

The trials of creating my new puppy environment has thrown up many tangents so far.
1) One is that Edge running as spot works fine until I add Portable Firefox to the /opt directory - then it stops responding and takes the puppy OS with it (no mouse or keyboard control).
Having a separate adrv.sfs file for either application is my aim here (and only load the one I want).
Another way is to have a separate save file for Edge and Firefox and load the save file I want. Best way is for both to be installed and no crashing (beyond my skill level to work out).
2) Rather strange and interesting one is that if I create a monitor.conf in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d, to set a modeline for 1920x1080@60 for the HDMI output, using gtf output, I get a green line on the left edge of the screen (the monitor.conf file is one way for remasters to start at HD resolution!). But if I remove this .conf and just session set the resolution with xrandr, or more permanently with XorgWizard, then no green line appears. Now I am running analogue (VGA) to my monitor via a HDMI to VGA adapter, and worse then through a VGA KVM switch - meaning no monitor EDID is available to better define modelines for Xorg use. Hard to fathom what difference exist between these two approaches, but from the Xorg log file there seems to be an EDID associated with the Nvidia GPU model, and the modeline from that is different to that generated by gtf, so probably due to this difference (but note, its just my interpretation of what I see in this log file - and its just another tangent I need to study).

Edit for 2) I tried the modeline for 1920x1080 I found in the Xorg log file - the polarity for Hsync given in that modeline is reversed to that given by gtf - tried it anyway (don't think it matters for digital monitors) but Xwin failed to start. So used xrandr --verbose to find the current parameters used and created a modeline out of that - the monitor.conf file now works great (no green line).

[mikewalsh]

@AQUAR :-

I used to produce a portable build of Edge, but quit when it largely stopped working with most Puppies. The trouble with Microsoft is that they WILL suppress error reporting in the terminal - I believe this is a flag that has to be set at compile/build time.....so when it fails to launch FROM the terminal, it simply returns to the 'prompt' (and thus no clues as to what's going on).

Even running through the usual repertoire of 'hacks' & 'workarounds' didn't give any results, so eventually I just said "Sod it", and gave up on it. I still say the portable concept IS better, especially with browsers, because it prevents them from interfering with each other.

Mike.

[AQUAR]

That's Microsoft for you.
Its why I don't use their OS for anything with a "critical" aspect to it.
Also just don't like Microsofts step wise chameleon changes to shift to their OS towards a subscription in the cloud model.

Pity though that Edge spells trouble for conversion into a portable.
Luckily I'll just be using Edge as a backup to Firefox, it only comes into play in case of Firefox and web sites not co-operating when I need it to do so.

[mikewalsh]

@AQUAR :-

Pity though that Edge spells trouble for conversion into a portable.
Luckily I'll just be using Edge as a backup to Firefox, it only comes into play in case of Firefox and web sites not co-operating when I need it to do so.

Edge has only been acting like this for perhaps the last 8 or 9 months. Prior to that, older builds ran nicely as a 'portable'.....but of course, MyCrudSoft have always wanted FULL access to your entire system, regardless of what you're running.

FYI, BTW, Firefox runs fairly well under WINE.....but any of the Chromium-based browsers are a lost cause. They always crash, immediately upon launch.

Mike.

[bigpuppyfan]

On fossapup 9.5, I just downloaded the portable you've kindly provided (viewtopic.php?t=1150), updated it through the included script, and it still worked fine. I wonder if the issue is the update process that caused it not to launch for you? Edge is getting bigger and bigger, so it requires more ram to perform the script. When I tried to update it, I actually ran out of space on the personal storage (I only use pupmode 5), but when this happens, the script just says updated because it moves through. When that's the case, edge won't launch, because the files are incomplete, and won't say why not. In my case, I have to do this to update it:

Code: Select all

mount -o remount,size=2500M /initrd/mnt/tmpfs/

and then run the update script. Then it updated and launched fine. Which means unfortunately the minimum RAM, on pupmode 5, for the update, is 3GB

[AQUAR]

I wonder if the issue is the update process that caused it not to launch for you?

I presume this is directed at mikewalsh, however edge (.deb) version works fine for me as long as I don't also include the portable firefox.
No idea why these two apps would destructively interact.

I will give the portable version of Edge a go as you mention it updated and still worked - no point to my purpose if it fails to be the current version (or breaks).

[AQUAR]

Trying out the suggestion above by mikeslr (actually easier to do than anticipated from the suggestion).

I was able to put just the portable Edge app in an adrv.sfs file, and the only thing needed to get it to run was to rerun the addmenu script to re-establish some hyper links.

It still freezes very occasionally for me and then the only option is a hard reboot. Don't mind it as a browser though.

[Jasper]

@AQUAR

Instead of 'hard' rebooting, why not use Htop and f9 to kill the application?

[AQUAR]

@Jasper

I am a nooby and learning many things as I go along - much by trial and error.
When Edge freezes, the whole OS freezes, and I have no functional keyboard or mouse.
Still I will try F9 when it locks up and see what happens.
I don't know what you mean by Htop (Horizontal top of the Keyboard?).

[Jasper]

@AQUAR

This might not work as you state your keyboard does not function

Most Puppy builds contain Htop which can be run from terminal or found in the Menu 'SYSTEM'

If you can access terminal and run the command, you can see the corresponding PID associated with the application.

In my screenshot you can see that if I did want to terminate the application IceCat then I press f9 and enter the figure associated with it.

[AQUAR]

@Jasper

I see it, kind off a fancy task manager (I see an animated icon for it on the task bar too).
I had used task manager in the system menu before, to kill non-cooperative apps (cause task manager is also a microsoft windows program that allows "task management".

But as you said its a when the puppy OS is no longer responsive.
In fact, just momentarily pressing on the PC's power button should open up a shutdown dialog if the OS is still responding to priority interupt inputs (but nothing!).

[AQUAR]

@mikewalsh
@mikeslr

Maybe you can help with this issue.

I now have a remastered F96-CE_4.ISO that works great with my old I7 MOBO and a not so old NVIDIA GPU.
Its installed frugally on a MBR VFAT formatted USB flash drive with an empty savefile created on first shutdown.

The suggestion from mikeslr about placing the portable firefox in a read only adrv.sfs, and run all in RAM only, is one that I like (now I understand it).
So I added the firefox portable to the /opt directory and set it up to launch from there by running the Menu-Add script.
Also attached a pinboard icon for it (I mean put an icon on the desktop!), and allowed firefox to update.
Checked that the updated firefox launches from the pinboard, and from the menu entry, and all works as expected.
Dumped this into the save file and it has in it a symbolic link "usr/bin/firefox" that points to opt/Firefox-portable64/LAUNCH.
Using the nicOS utility I then create an adrv.sfs of this save file, but unfortunately that capture of the save file does not load this symbolic link "usr/bin/firefox" (maybe deleted because of the layering?). More likely reason why its not operational as before is, when I mount the new adrv.sfs file to look inside, I don't see this symbolic link "usr/bin/firefox" in there.
I see everything else in there that I think should be there, including the firefox.png icon file in "usr/share/pixmaps" ???

Trying to add this symbolic link to the existing adrv.sfs file, with the nicOS utility and a new save file with this symbolic link re-added (by running Menu-Add again) gives the same result (being a sucker here by really doing the same thing and expecting a different result!).

Consequently, when running RAM only, the only way to boot portable firefox is to, either run the LAUNCH script directly, or to run the Menu-Add script again to create this symbolic link in ram for this session. But this defeats the reason for doing this "no save file" loaded approach - ie normal way to run Firefox and with no session persistence.

Right now I have to combine this adrv.sfs approach with a savefile to maintain persistence of this one symbolic link, no big deal but.

Is there any way I can propagate this symbolic link to the top?
Does the normal way of creating symbolic links involve some kind of registration that is missed by the add-menu script (just thinking laterally here!).
Maybe create a new adrv.sfs with this symbolic link added to it (by say modifying a read/write copy of the adrv.sfs file and creating a new one with the symbolic link in it)?

At a pinch I think I could cheat by dragging the actual LAUNCH script to the pinboard to link it there and start the portable firefox from that link (and give it a nice firefox icon!).

I think I am almost there with my new puppy system - so I won't give up.

Hope I don't sound to microsoft windowies.

[mikewalsh]

@AQUAR :-

I believe your formatting is the issue here.

FAT32 does NOT support symbolic links. It's one legacy of the M$ FAT32 specifications that, unfortunately, works to our disadvantage. This is why - although FAT32 is presented as an option when installing, because most noobies are NOT that "tech-savvy" when they first come to Puppy! - we normally recommend re-formatting to a Linux file-system (usually ext3 or ext4). This leads to the second point:-

Using FAT32 is the reason why you're having to use the old-fashioned save-FILE. This is required because it has a Linux filesystem inside it, needed for Puppy to be able to run. It also has size limitations; it gets created at a 'fixed' size, and when getting near full then needs to be manually enlarged.

When you run a Linux-formatted file-system, you can use a save-FOLDER instead. This automatically expands/contracts, up to the amount of space available on the drive.

===========================

I have been following this thread, but NOT that closely. Is this a UEFI machine? Did it previously have Windows on it, with all that SecureBoot/FastBoot junk? I'd recommend re-formatting/re-creating your flash drive (if you're not yet too heavily "invested" in this particular install); if it IS UEFI, you'll need a small FAT32-formatted first partition (256 MB is fine), followed by a second, larger, ext3/4-formatted second partition for Puppy itself (preferably as a frugal install, in its own sub-directory).

Then use shinobar's Grub2Config bootloader install utility. I wasn't an 'early adopter' of this, unlike some members here, but I've been experimenting with it recently, and it seems to work really well........providing bootloader Menu entries for both newer & older machines.

Mike.

[AQUAR]

@mikewalsh

Its a very steep learning curve for anyone that tries to change from M$ windows to any linux distro.
Even for someone like me that's reasonably tech savy, I find myself chasing unknowns at every step in being engaged.

This exercise is on my desktop PC that others would call a rusty boat anchor - me I am very happy with it as it isn't burdened with "modern OS & hardware unwanted intrusions".
Its a GA-P55A-UD3R MOBO that dates back to 2010 and it has no idea of UEFI, its purely BIOS into MBR.
It only boots from its USB 2.0 ports so slow to load the xx.sfs files, but this booting up is still perfectly doable.
And with puppy in RAM the user operations are more than responsive enough for general demand use (web browsing, social media).
Me, I just need 2 fully supported current release browsers, its just for online account connectivity, and used with security aspects in mind.
Puppy linux fit that sort of almost single purpose requirement very nicely, even with just a fixed savefile on a fat32 partition.
I don't save anything to a save file when I use the Puppy Linux set up for this aim, basically a non-persistent use of it (security element - fresh clean start every start).
Only time really the save file is used is when there is the need to upgrade the browsers.

Even though that save file is on a fat32 partition, its internal format is ext4 so writing symbolic links within it works as expected.
Creating the adrv.sfs squash file from this save file, I have the nooby presumption that we are still not conducting internal operations involving fat32 limitations.
Hence I perceive that the Only time fat32 comes into play is in writing the resulting squash file. Probably not how it works, but when I use this adrv.sfs file all the symbolic links are still there.
Except of course that one pesky symbolic link that I want to still be in there to serve the launch of the portable firefox.
Will see if new symbolic links to other locations under root will stick, if not it must be as you say a FAT32 issue.

I am still in the mood to try new things to see if I can get to a better way to achieve my objective.
I'll have a look to see if Rufus can create a MBR bootable a usb flash drive formatted with a linux file system, and then if my little old PC can boot from it.

Edit:
Seems that using Rufus to write ISO contents on a MBR system will force the fat32 format for USB flash drives and then install a syslinux boot loader that chain loads to grldr (Grub4Dos).
So far installing just the grub boot loader on an ext3 formatted flash drive is not booting because of missing grub files.
Not sure, but I think the boot files when using grub4dos need to be on a fat/32 partition, so I probably need another partition with the ext file system for puppy files (will read some more stuff).

[rockedge]

You can create a boot-able USB manually like this using the Puppy Linux booted from CD-ROM ->

In this exercise we will format the USB to 2 partitions.
FAT32 512 M (for the boot loader and better compatibility for a machine to "see" the USB drive.
ext4 what ever is left over.

1. select the FAT32 partition then use the menu option -> Manage Flags and check the box for boot. This will set the FAT32 partition to be "seen" as the boot loader location.

2. close GParted.

3. create a directory in the ext4 partition, for example /Fossapup64

4. mount and open the ISO file or copy the contents of the CD-ROM to this new directory. This is the frugal installation.

5. Open Menu->System->Grub4Dos and select the USB drive for searching
   Grub4Dos should find the frugal install and then offer to install the MBR and boot menu system. Allow this to happen.

examine the created menu.lst which should have an entry like this:

Code: Select all

title F96-CE_4 (uuid)
  find --set-root uuid () 8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa
  kernel /F96-CE_4/vmlinuz   psubdir=F96-CE_4 pmedia=atahd net.ifnames=0
  initrd /F96-CE_4/initrd.gz

Keep in mind your UUID will be different than in the example. The net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command line is for insuring the network devices get named like eth0 and wlan0. This is optional.

Reboot your machine with the USB drive inserted.

[wizard]

@AQUAR

I find myself chasing unknowns at every step in being engaged.

Everyone does it. We are creatures of habit and our minds keep trying to relate the new to the old. You'll find some things the same, but many things will be different.

Much of what Puppy Linux does is, in fact, simpler and more elegant. You need two things to succeed, patience and perseverance to learn something new. It's good for the brain and the forum members are here to help you.

wizard

[mikewalsh]

Much of what Puppy Linux does is, in fact, simpler and more elegant. You need two things to succeed, patience and perseverance to learn something new. It's good for the brain and the forum members are here to help you.

@wizard :-

I couldn't have put that better myself..! I know I sometimes fall into the trap of over-complexity for its own sake, but I'm steadily weaning myself off this 'failing'. K.I.S.S is, indeed, the best possible approach to anything. Life throws enough curve-balls our way as it is; why make it any MORE complicated?

@AQUAR :-

TBH, if you're not going to use the 'portable' AS a 'portable', but are instead going to locate it in a permanent, fixed location, we can replace the usual sym-link with a wee script to point to the portable's 'LAUNCH' script instead. Like this:-

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
#
# Launch Firefox
#
/opt/Firefox-portable64/LAUNCH

I've attached it below. remove the fake '.gz', delete the 'firefox' sym-link & put this in its place. Should be fine for what you want it for.

Mike.

[AQUAR]

Thank you all for the inputs above, considering you are all volunteers trying to help its extra much appreciated.

Much of how Puppy Linux works does indeed espouse the KISS principle, it why I consider it worth the step into the Linux world, and bother to get it to do what I want.

@mikewalsh
I am indeed wanting to use the Portable Mainline Firefox in much the same ways as the builtin Portable ESR Firefox.
Simply because if I place it outside of the Puppy Linux Environment, with it still to always remain accessible, it has to go on the USB flash drive along with the Puppy System Squash files.
And if I do that, its too slow to load web pages, presumably due to there being read write action (web cache, updates) to the slow USB 2.0 port.
Mikeslr mentioned in a similar context, changing the location of such folders and then symbolically linking them back - will see how that pans out.
The tiny script I will add to the pinboard and incorporate in the adrv.sfs or a next step remaster with firefox mainline included - (similar result to dragging LAUNCH to the pinboard?).
As a sidenote to any microsoft windows user: don't write such scripts using microsofts notepad or wordpad as the invisible return characters stop it from being executable in linux.

Yesterday I did try to use a working puppy and its builtin apps to create a new one on a fat32 and ext3 partition with the grub bootloader, cause my interest was perked with a save folder in lieu of a save file. Now the mechanics to correctly identify write-able available media is not obvious here as it is with M$ windows - instead of writing the grub boot loader files to the intended usb media, I got a modified boot process on the working puppy one. I point this out because linux noobs can easily pick the wrong media to destroy the MBR of their main OS on HDD and land in real trouble (in my case the identifiers reversed for the puppy linux drive and the one I wanted to install grub on.

I am learning heaps as I plod along and pursue the help above, and it is yielding some real practical options to set up F96-CE_4 for my objectives.
And I agree its good for the brain (even an old one like mine - don't ask!).

[mikeslr]

I'm not a great fan of Google-Chrome: don't like that Google wants to know and keep records of everything. But I've taken to using it more often as arthritis makes typing more difficult. Only under GC can I activate the microphone to enter info into the Search box via voice.

FYI, Edge is not built from scratch by Microsoft. Almost all web-browsers today are forked from either firefox or Chromium. Chromium is Google-Chrome's test-bed: that is Google tests changes in Chromium, then when satisfied adds Google-Chromes branding and a couple other feature. Chromium is available for others to do the same. Edge is just one among several 'Chromium-clones' including Ungoogled-Chromium (more of GC's call home features disabled, security features added but difficult to add your own extensions), Brave (security features added, currently recommended by the Slant community), slimjet, and Vivaldi.
I haven't run into any problems including either (or both) firefox and Brave in an adrv.sfs. Suggest that you try mikewalsh's Brave-portable, viewtopic.php?p=59662&sid=bf8f5620a623e ... 9da#p59662.

The good things about Google-Chrome is that usually they 'just work' and almost every web-site deems them acceptable.

These are the extensions I currently add to GC & clones to enhance security and privacy:

Extensions.png (50.2 KiB) Viewed 1876 times

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Sorry that text in screenshot is barely discernible. Maybe download and zoom-in.

[AQUAR]

@mikeslr

Nothing ventured nothing gained, so will per-sue other browsers to see if they are compatible with those finicky web sites of mine.
Currently I have a puppy setup with firefox mainline portable, based on various elements of the suggestions above.
As I work in terms of progressive snapshots, its easy to make system level changes and check out other apps one at the time in a green field setting.

Pity its still not 100% stable when using firefox, it does stop responding (like Edge) and I am starting to lean towards potential other causes (graphics driver or rendering issues).
Next time it happens, if there is still some user control, I'll restart the X server and see if I am able to do browser web restore.
I do know I am not running out of RAM, and most of the 8GB remains available.

Another stab in the dark is to regress to an earlier V5 kernel in case the RT version I am using is causing issues.

Security extensions I need to look at, to see if they are applicable to the very short list of HTTPS URL's that I am using this Puppy for.

[AQUAR]

So, after reading a lot about the puppy linux way of doing things, and trying all the helpful suggestions here, I did end up with a success (stable OS - stable browser).

I wanted a late mainline puppy version, and F96-CE4 was the one I preferred over Bionic and FossaPup.
It needed to boot of a USB flash drive on an aging (14 year old) Gigabyte P55A-UD3R MOBO.
Had to provide native monitor resolution (1920 x 1080) with an Nvidia GT1030 PCIe graphics card (also now over the hill technology at 7 years old).
And last but not least, had to be able to run the latest mainline firefox browser, and be update-able to maintain it that way.

F96-CE4 OOTB just wasn't going to play nicely with those hardware specifications, as more or less expected with the general advice pointing to "use older puppies for older hardware".

So I ended up with:
Changing to the huge-5.4.86-slacko64 kernel, because with later kernels the nouveau driver is unable to do KMS, meaning OOTB you only get VESA resolutions to a default output.
A monitor config file with a modeline created manually by looking at the output of xrandr --verbose, after setting the resolution to 1920 x 1080 with Xorg (because gtf or cvt generated modelines didn't work).
Adding the ipv6 kernel module to the start up (as I have a dual stack internet connection).
Remastering (using remasterpup2 and 95fix scripts instead of the menu remaster one) for the firefox portable to become a "builtin" application, preserve user settings, remove unwanted apps, and retain pulse audio functionality.
And finally adding various portable browsers to an ext4 formatted high speed usb v3.1 flash drive, because many of them are worth a look (putting them on the vfat USB 2.0 boot drive makes them too slow and can't make symbolic links to the pinboard).

Not the end though, as I have a more to sort out (like UUID based mounting of the ext4 drive!).

Anyone with an old computers might just give it a new life with a modern puppy. Just needs some self motivation to gain the basics and with that comes the helpful input from the forum's experts (plus all their efforts to provide puppy specific kernels and apps!).