FrugalPup v44, very flexible Puppy frugal installer, supporting i18n

[d-pupp]

I'm not sure how to respond to this??

And strangely, here is a quote from a grub.cfg menuentry generated by FrugalPup a long time ago:

I was just relating how I got microcode working for me.
My version of Fossapup 64 9.5 didn't install or use microcode and Vanilladpup doesn't have a hard drive installer. I didn't even know what microcode were until I read about them on the forum here. So I decided to try and get it working for me.

[gyrog]

@d-pupp, don't sweat it.
It's just paranoid me reminding folk that if a Puppy is installed with FrugalPup, support for microcode loading via initrd is already there in the generated grub.cfg menuentry.

[gyrog]

FrugalPup v41 is available.

FrugalPup v41, DiskPup v41, StickPup v41 and f2StickPup v41 - Puppy frugal installer.
Along with e3StickPup v41 and e4StickPup v41.

'frugalpup_41.sfs'(3 MiB) or 'frugalpup-41.pet'(3 MiB) or 'FrugalPup_AppDir-41.tar.gz' can be downloaded from https://www.mediafire.com/folder/rdyc5l ... /frugalpup.

There is only 1 change in this version,
When installing Puppy files, it will now copy any 'ucode.cpio' found in the release ".iso" file, into the install directory.
(a 1 line change)
It is a change to a "back-end" script, so all utilities in the FrugalPup suite, should be changed.

Sorry folks, that it has taken all this time for the penny to drop, that this file might be include in a Puppy release,
and not a file peculiar to my CPU, that I would have to search out and download.

[peebee]

Uploaded to Woof-CE:
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... pup-41.pet

[gyrog]

@peebee, Thanks.

[gyrog]

In another topic on this forum, there is a report of a computer having difficulties after using FrugalPup v41 to install a Puppy containing a 'ucode.cpio' file. It seemed that the subsequent load of the micro-code at boot, failed.
The issue seems to have been resolved with a fresh manual install of the 'ucode.cpio' file.

So, wondering if FrugalPup was somehow mucking up the copy of 'ucode.cpio', I did a fresh install of the same Puppy using FrugalPup v41.
The following micro-code load on boot, worked fine on my machine.

If anyone else has problems with micro-code loading after a FrugalPup v41 install of a Puppy that includes 'ucode.cpio',
please report them here.

Although I have no idea how FrugalPup v41 could be responsible, because it's the same line of code that copies each of the files,
'ucode.cpio' is just another entry in a list of files that need to be copied if they exist in the source.

I could possibly replace the "cp" command inside a loop, with creating a list of files that are needed and exist, and use "tar" to copy them all.

But I will wait to see if there is a possible problem.

[bigpup]

As the person that reported this problem.
I too am not sure exactly what was causing it.

Some times with computers stuff just happens

I do wonder if all that stuff in the grub.cfg entry is really needed to get it all loaded correctly.

menuentry "Puppy dpup 10.0.2" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root b0f092c5-6a1c-4e04-b9d8-ddbeb91d4ab7
echo "Loading vmlinuz"
linux /bookworm10.0.2/vmlinuz pmedia=usbhd pdrv=b0f092c5-6a1c-4e04-b9d8-ddbeb91d4ab7 psubdir=/bookworm10.0.2 pfix=fsck,fsckp,trim TZ=EST5EDT,M3.2.0,M11.1.0
if [ -e /bookworm10.0.2/local-initrd.gz ]; then
set local_rd=/bookworm10.0.2/local-initrd.gz
else
set local_rd=
fi
if [ -e /bookworm10.0.2/ucode.cpio ]; then
set ucode_rd=/bookworm10.0.2/ucode.cpio
echo "Loading ucode.cpio and initrd.gz"
else
set ucode_rd=
echo "Loading initrd.gz"
fi
initrd $ucode_rd /bookworm10.0.2/initrd.gz $local_rd

.
Sure seems like a lot of extra commands just to get the ucode.cpio file used.

Or are they needed for Puppy versions that do not have a ucode.cpio file?

This topic seems to indicate the grub command, could be very simple, to use the ucode.cpio.
https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... 5#p1030115

If I really understood what was really needed to get ucode.cpio used, I would offer to help tweak the commands.
Well I can help to test.

[gyrog]

@bigpup ,
The grub.cfg entry is as long winded as it is so that either a 'ucode.cpio' or a 'local-initrd.gz', or both, can be added to an install that did not initially include either, and grub will do the appropriate thing.
Only an 'initrd.gz' is required, the other 2 are optional.

Yes, FrugalPup could simplify the entry if it copied a 'ucode.cpio' file to the install directory.
But then your test without the 'ucode.cpio' file would have failed at the 'grub' stage.

The current way looks "bloated", but it provides flexibility.

[geo_c]

Used v41 yesterday in F96 to load grub2 on a USB ssd drive. Worked wonderfully. It also gave me good boot stanzas for F96 and fossapup. Then I copied my Kennel Linux grub2 boot stanzas into the grub.cfg and all worked perfectly.

Thanks for the update.

[gyrog]

@geo_c,
Glad to hear that it works for you.

And you are welcome.

[trawglodyte]

What I'm doing is a bit different than described above, but I think is sound. Consider the following scenario
You have one EFI partition. You want to boot to play with some puppies. You either make a partition or have a blank USB for them, doesn't matter.
You install BookwormPup64_10.0.4 FIRST, doing the Settings, Puppy, AND Boot part of FrugalPup Installer to write the .efi's and cert to the EFI partition.
When you add additional Pups you do the Settings and Puppy part of FrugalPup Installer to copy the files from the iso to a new folder on your usb or hard drive partition. but you DON'T do the Boot part. You DO NOT write anything to the EFI partition.
Instead, you go back to BookwormPup64_10.0.4 and do FrugalPup Installer > Boot choosing only to update the .config file.
This way BookwormPup64_10.0.4 always remains in control of the Puppy grub, and BookwormPup64_10.0.4 is the only puppy.cer necessary on the EFI partition. Simply updating the config tells it where to find vmlinuz and initrd.gz for any other pups you want to add, and puts the new pups in your Puppy grub menu.

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So far I have only installed BookwormPup64_10.0.4 and added FossaPup64_9.5, but I think my logic is sound.
I DID do a ton of experimentation beforehand to come up with this method.
It may sound confusing, but it only takes 5 minutes to do this once you wrap your head around it.
You can sweeten the deal by using BookwormPup to install rEFInd, which gives you nice graphical interface at startup to go to your Puppy grub, to Windows Boot Manager, to other Linux grubs, to a Ventoy stick. whatever you got on your system right there for you every time you reboot or startup.

[trawglodyte]

I have one minor thing to add. When I use FrugalPup Installer from BookwormPup64_10.0.4 to write to the EFI. The grub.cfg it creates always has <pmedia=usbflash> which is specified by me in the Settings. But it also writes <pmedia=usbhd>. This prevents me from using pupmode 13 and puts me in pupmode 12 unless I manuallly edit the grub.cfg on the EFI partition. Removing <pmedia=usbhd> from the kernel line.

[gyrog]

When you add additional Pups you do the Settings and Puppy part of FrugalPup Installer to copy the files from the iso to a new folder on your usb or hard drive partition. but you DON'T do the Boot part. You DO NOT write anything to the EFI partition.
Instead, you go back to BookwormPup64_10.0.4 and do FrugalPup Installer > Boot choosing only to update the .config file.

If you are running "FrugalPup -> Puppy" to setup the Puppy install directory, why not use the "Boot" facility in the same FrugalPup to "replace" or "append" the grub2 config file?

The important thing here is that "FrugalPup -> Boot" can be used to only update the grub2 config file, without installing grub2.
This feature should definitely be used when installing additional Puppies.

[gyrog]

When I use FrugalPup Installer from BookwormPup64_10.0.4 to write to the EFI. The grub.cfg it creates always has <pmedia=usbflash> which is specified by me in the Settings.

How do you do this?
I'm guessing that you edit the "kernel boot parameters" line in "FrugalPup -> Settings".
If so, this was designed for "kernel boot parameters" not "Puppy boot parameters".
The resultant boot parameters are simply copied, without any processing, into the grub2 "linux" line.

But it also writes <pmedia=usbhd>. This prevents me from using pupmode 13 and puts me in pupmode 12 unless I manuallly edit the grub.cfg on the EFI partition. Removing <pmedia=usbhd> from the kernel line.

Yes, the current FrugalPup always generates a "pmedia=" Puppy boot parameter that reflects the hardware containing the install directory.
FrugalPup also assumes that you might edit the "grub.cfg", if only to change the order of the entries for the menu.

How to change, that is the question?
Could possibly change the "Pfix boot paramaters" to a "Puppy boot parameters" dialog.
Add extra stuff to choose beetween "direct"(pupmode=12), "indirect"(pupmode=13) or "none"(no preference), save mechanism preference, with explanations.

I've never been a fan of having to boot "pmedia=???flash" to get pupmode=13.
There should be a way to specify this no matter what the "pmedia=" boot parameter.
Maybe a "pfix=indirect" or "pfix=pm13" boot parameter?

[trawglodyte]

If you are running "FrugalPup -> Puppy" to setup the Puppy install directory, why not use the "Boot" facility in the same FrugalPup to "replace" or "append" the grub2 config file?
This feature should definitely be used when installing additional Puppies.

You're right, that would be better so long as you only use FrugalPup_installer>Boot to change grub.cfg. It's not as foolproof as I thought to return to BookwormPup to do it either. I just added Fatdog64_90, for example, and doing it that way didn't add an entry, so I did it manually.

There's also an issue with Ventoy (this has nothing to do directly with Puppy Linux) but when I click a puppy.iso I want to install it loads the existing Puppy grub instead. It does this unless I rename the grub.cfg on the EFI partition grub.cfg.bak or something. But then I lose my Puppy grub until I rename it back.

I was super-hyped up when I realized between BookwormPup64, rEFInd, and Ventoy there was this super-easy step-by-step way for someone to install BookwormPup and set up a multi-boot w/ Windows, and other Linux OS's and/or Ventoy. But I'm finding some kinks in it now through further experimentation.

I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that you have to read and work a little to get pupmode 13. I'm just telling you as a newb to Puppy Linux and someone who hasn't been doing Linux very long I saw the additional boot paramaters .txt on the partition where I put the frugal install. It had pmedia=usbflash, and it took some head-scratching before I figured out to also look at the grub.cfg on the EFI partition. Not all bad, makes newbs like us feel like we're doing serious hacking and causes us to read and learn about the difference between pupmode 12, 13, 5 etc....

[gyrog]

@trawglodyte, Thanks for your persistence.
Just a couple of comments:

1) The whole pupmode=13 thing is more obscure than in needs to be, and that should change.

2) Ventoy does not play nicely with booting Puppy ISO files, I suggest you don't do it.
( It inserts a "pmedia=" line in the 'init' script in 'initrd.gz', which ends up confusing the 'shutdownconfig' script on first shutdown.)

[bigpup]

Edit of topic posts.

I moved some posts to other locations, because they had nothing to do with Frugalpup Installer.

Please keep this topic only about Frugalpup.

Thanks!

[Jasper]

@gyrog

Is it possible to change the partition types that are created by Stickpup?

As modern Usb storage devices use exFAT, could this be used instead of FAT32?

This I would hope would allow 'Pupsave files' to be created beyond their current 4gb limit.

[gyrog]

Is it possible to change the partition types that are created by Stickpup?

As modern Usb storage devices use exFAT, could this be used instead of FAT32?

This I would hope would allow 'Pupsave files' to be created beyond their current 4gb limit.

First thought, use f2StickPup and a "savefolder" instead, if 4GiB limit is your only concern.
But it's a reasonable request, I'll put it on my todo list to investigate exFAT.
I've never used exFAT.

[Jasper]

@gyrog

Thanks for getting back to me and offering a solution.

I might have got myself slight confused re: save file/folder

I only use StickPup USB stick installer for ISO to flashdrive installations; has always worked.

This is the Save flle(?) on Jammy64

From memory Save Folders have the *.2/3/4fs filenames (?)

I did try Save Folders but I had a new one created each session if I choose to save and this created multiple ones which filled up the device (admittedly it was small) and very similar to a multi-session DVD (still have some Verbatim 8cm DVD-RW originally intended for Camcorders ..... better use than going in landfill )

I have looked at some of your other scripts re: Saves and came away thinking they applied more to frugal installs (?)

My lack of understanding

Re: exFAT .............. maybe I need to add an additional package (?) or there simply is no 'shrink/grow' availability ........ which seems strange

[gyrog]

@Jasper,
A savefolder for upup would be named 'upupsave', (it's a directory).
A traditional savefile for upup would be 'upupsave.2fs', 'upupsave.3fs' , or 'upupsave.4fs'.
'.2fs' contains an ext2 filesystem, '.3fs' contains an ext3 filesystem, '.4fs' contains an ext4 filesystem.

Your save is 'upupsave66.tar.gz', this is a compresed save-archive file, something peculiar to running in pupmode=66,
currently the default for, and limited to fat32 filesystems.
it becomes quite inefficient if you install many '.pet's.

[bigpup]

@Jasper That image from Gparted is about file systems (formats) it supports and what it can do with them.

So it is not exactly how a Puppy version will support the format.

But it is a general info on it.

A good place to see if some support software is needed for better support of the format (file system).

That 'shrink/grow' availability is about Gparted ability with exFat formatted partition.

Notice Fat, ntfs, and ext type formates are fully supported.

Other type formats, get a little better support, as someone in Linux works to improve this support. Releases updated versions of the support software.

[Jasper]

@gyrog

Thank you once again for taking the time to explain it clearly to me.

So, if the device was formatted to exFAT would this alter the restriction?

The application chooses the default as FAT32.

Also, can you explain how many Pet files begin to make it inefficient?

The current one has 68 packages presently installed.

https://rentry.co/my-installed-packages

So what would your advice be in my situation?

[jamesbond]

First thought, use f2StickPup and a "savefolder" instead, if 4GiB limit is your only concern.
But it's a reasonable request, I'll put it on my todo list to investigate exFAT.
I've never used exFAT.

As far as I know, UEFI won't boot off exFAT. If you need exFAT, then you'll need two separate partitions: FAT for UEFI boots, and exFAT for your data (savefile etc).

[Jasper]

@jamesbond

That's a little depressing as I have some fairly large micro-sd cards (256gb) which have come out of old phones as I have replaced them.

Guess, I can find use for them in something else.

[bigpup]

I use Frugalpup Installer main program this way to do installs to USB drives. Actually any drives.

viewtopic.php?t=11171

I know it seems like a lot of steps.
But I wanted to make sure it was fully understood what to do and when.

When you setup the partitions on the drive.

The 2nd partition or any other partitions except the first one, you can make any format you want to.
exfat if you want.

The frugal install goes on any other partition(s) other than the 1st one, which is just for the boot loader files.

Note:
Make 2 partitions is best.
Putting all other frugal installs on the 2nd partition.
Makes it easy for the Frugalpup installer boot loader install to see all of them to make menu entries.
It only has option to look in only one partition you tell it the frugal installs are in.

Why do we even want to use exfat?

The exFAT format is the best for big portable storage devices on both Windows and macOS operating systems.
exFAT is also highly supported by both Windows and Mac computers, and users can flexibly use exFAT storage devices to transfer files between two systems.

Note:
For a Puppy save placed on exfat format.
You have to use a save file.
Cannot do a save folder.

Example:
This is a 512GiB USB drive I have 7 different Puppy versions on, each in their own frugal installs.
All the frugal installs are on the 3rd partition.
The 2nd partition I use to store data.
1st partition has the boot loader files, with boot loader menu to boot any of them.

Booting from it running BookwormPup64 10.0.6, right now.
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[Jasper]

@bigpup

Thanks for this

[Clarity]

... Why do we even want to use exfat?...

Additional Information for use: All new USB storage is shipped by the manufacturers "pre-formatted" to exfat. ExFat is a universal performer usually found in all of the modern OSes and distros.

I am sure many who have purchased USB stores over the past 5 years have noticed.

Most, if not all, of the recent PUPs, KLs, and DOGs have exFat support in their deliverables.

This post is NOT a request for any efforts to convert or use. The Linux partition recommendations found on the forum should be adhered to in ALL cases. This is because the MS partition formats are not supported for certain Linux uses.

[gyrog]

1) In current woof-ce Puppies, pupmode=66 is limited to only fat32.

2) If you need to reformat a device to include a fat32 ESP for uefi booting, why not make the second partition a Linux partition?

[gyrog]

So, if the device was formatted to exFAT would this alter the restriction?

No.

Also, can you explain how many Pet files begin to make it inefficient?
The current one has 68 packages presently installed.

Pupmode=66 is inherently inefficient.
When there are no, or verry little, pets intsalled, the inefficiency is not noticable.
The more pets you install, the slower booting and shutdown will get.
It will also use more and more RAM, so the computer will probably run slower and slower.
It's not the number of pets, but the total size of all installed pets that matters.
So the limit is your tolerence of a slow computer.

So what would your advice be in my situation?

To make a Puppy Linux bootable usb stick, reformat it.