How to make snapshot copies of BookwormPup frugal install?

[JusGellin]

Great, that made it work.
Some red text came up before it completed reboot indicating an error would wait 60 sec. Then it completed the reboot.
The Sessions folder was populated, my change was retained.

I'm glad you know about what to do.

[Clarity]

OK, this reinforces what I have published on the forum about SG2D. It works for ALL distro's ISO files on the forum. And this is especially true for WoofCE PUPs as it circumvents the bug in WoofCE PUPs. BTW: WoofCE PUPs are listed on the forum in this thread Further, any forum distro that does NOT boot for any reason, please report the distro boot problem to the appropriate thread of the broken distro.

Ventoy and SG2D are merely 'launchers' of forum ISO files. They fulfill their role by turning the PC over to the selected distro chosen.

See the update to my prior post. It should match your path. (Y/N?)

[JusGellin]

Yes, I did exactly the same as you showed.
Will I just use SG2D from now on?
Thanks for your help

I just saw more of what you said. I probably should try it the original way first.

[Clarity]

In the prior post, I mentioned instructions to circumvent the WoofCE problem with sessions.

Circumvention

1. Boot your USB, selecting the WoofCE PUP from the Ventoy list.

2. Take the GRUB2 path offered by Ventoy

3. On the PUP's menu screen, edit the stanza

4. Add psave=Persistence:/Sessions/ to the linux line

5. Allow it to boot (F10)

The PUP should boot, from this Ventoy use, and will have proper session management on desktop.

Without the PSAVE= parm, the PUP does NOT respect your SAVESPEC instructions. (This is the WoofCE bug). It is hoped that one-day the developers will get around to resolve this. I also understand "why" they are reluctant to do anything.

Thus,

• launch your WoofCEs from SG2D and manually do nothing when the PUP's menu pops. The PUP uses the SAVESPEC for its session directions.

• OR launch your WoofCEs from Ventoy and manually add the PSAVE=... parm when the PUP's menu pops

For KL distros you need do nothing and your sessions will save appropriately on your Persistence partition.

Enjoy

[JusGellin]

It doesn't save the change I made. I take it that a reboot after the change is supposed to save it too. When it boots up, it acts the same way as it originally did and ignores the saving to the session. The next time when I do the same and look at the stanza, it's missing.

[Clarity]

NO, this is true for ALL distros of the world: Changes at menu time does NOT modify your ISO file.

In the future, if the bug is fixed, you will boot via Ventoy same as you do via SG2D. Thus NO need to edit a boot stanza to go to desktop with proper session management.

[williwaw]

compatibility with ventoy is not a puppy feature.
persistence for puppy is not supported in ventoy installs.
maybe their plugin works

https://www.ventoy.net/en/plugin_persis ... %20distros.

[Clarity]

@williwaw

WE're not talking compatibility, at least I am not!

This is an operational bug. An answer of getting around a bug is your way of suggesting "compatibility"? In the past, the idea of 'support' has been mentioned.

When has anyone on this forum mentioned any of the launchers as compatible? A launcher has nothing to do with internal distro operations when the distro is given control.

The ability to respect SAVESPEC is a FEATURE of WoofCE PUPs.

You may be confusing with something else, I think.

I am curious, though: Have YOU used the JSON with any of the distros from the webpage you show? If so, which?

[JusGellin]

@Clarity
So from what I just did, it seems that only using the SG2D selection helps to save and boot up the session changes.

Even when I try to use Ventoy's way and edit the stanza, it didn't work at all - even immediately after the edit. So I didn't see it do anything for me. Does that mean that change didn't work for boot up of that distro?

I will try doing this both ways a few more times to see if I may be missing something that I may be causing. Let me know it there may be something more I can try as well.
Thanks

[Clarity]

I may be missing something that I may be causing. Let me know it there may be something more I can try as well.

I will try to understand 'why' the PUP is not finding its prior session
on bootup? Something may not be right??

You have probably noticed that when the PUP is launched from SG2D, that during boot you see it finding your prior session(s). Yet when you add a psave=Persistence:/Sessions/ when launched from Ventoy, no 'session found' message during boot is shown and upon desktop your are seeing a pristine desktop. Correct?

Questions

• What is the current size (and free space) on your USB's "Ventoy" partition?

• What is the current size (and free space) on your HDD's "Persistence" partition?

You will see info by opening Hardinfo and hitting its Filesystem entry

[williwaw]

I am curious, though: Have YOU used the JSON with any of the distros from the webpage you show? If so, which?

No, if I want to preview a distro I look for the live version or boot the iso with grub2.
If I want to install a distro, I follow the distros install instructions.

[Clarity]

@williwaw I understand what you've shared as this is traditional with the known options of the past. It works! I've used the traditional 'install' frugal often if I need to match something to help a member from time to time.

But, since 2019, boot launchers have seen increased value for a number of very good reasons: The forum distros take advantage of those reasons for those who use the launchers. Its a productivity gain as it reduces the time and make installations unnecessary as the methods covered here exposes. With the downloaded ISO file to the launcher folder, the forum's ISO files when booting and running take care of everything as would an installation. And it reduces/removes problems in members needing help with past traditional methods.

Thus what remain, if there is a problem, is something internal in a forum distro. Thus far, with DOGs/KLs there are NO boot or use problems when launched from either known methods. I have tested all/most distros the forum has to offer. WoofCEs are no problem when launched from SG2D.

Hope this is helpful

[Clarity]

@williwaw, on the JSON, to a non-Ventoy user, it has a wording "Persistence". It is not the same as what we are doing here in Puppyland when the spelling matches a disk partition's label.

I do understand what the JSON intends for a few mainline distros found on Distrowatch.

Thanks. I do appreciate any help from anyone when shared.

[JusGellin]

You have probably noticed that when the PUP is launched from SG2D, that during boot you see it finding your prior session(s). Yet when you add a psave=Persistence:/Sessions/ when launched from Ventoy, no 'session found' message during boot is shown and upon desktop your are seeing a pristine desktop. Correct?

Yes

Questions

What is the current size (and free space) on your USB's "Ventoy" partition?

3.72 GiB total

What is the current size (and free space) on your HDD's "Persistence" partition?

97 GiB total / 975 MiB used (I just set the laptop hardrive for this with nothing else - the 975 MiB used is from the SG2D)

I also noticed that no matter what I did including starting the Ventoy Grub2 with the edit change psave=Persistence:/Sessions/ that if I agree to first time save, It only points to the Ventoy partition in the "Sanity Check" display. I can't change the partition it is looking for - only the folder.

[Clarity]

I also noticed that no matter what I did including starting the Ventoy Grub2 with the edit change psave=Persistence:/Sessions/ that if I agree to first time save, It only points to the Ventoy partition in the "Sanity Check" display. I can't change the partition it is looking for - only the folder.

True that behavior is by PUP design. Thus not viewed as a problem: Users cannot reassign the device it will use to save the session.

Again, the problem is a WoofCE issue where when being launched from Ventoy, it is not respecting either your SAVESPEC in the BOOTISOS folder or the psave parm entered manually while also "locking" the boot partition. This bug has been reported.

As a circumvention, I recommend to launch WoofCEs ISO files from only SG2D until the bug is fixed.

For all other distros, from in or out of the forum, Ventoy launching does NOT have the bug.

[JusGellin]

Hmm, that's too bad because that would make it such a clean connection like this for all the versions of pups. It would help to make it a standard feature that any user would easily be able to use.
I hope it will be considered to make that happen.

[Clarity]

Which distros are currently in your BOOTISOS folder? (use LS command in terminal or open ROX to the folder.)

[JusGellin]

I've only tried BookwormPup64 and fossapup64-9.5. I'm planning on looking at others as well.
Fossapup64-9.5 works the same way.

[Clarity]

Can you make a copy of the terminal command output OR post a picture of the ROX folder list?

... I'm planning on looking at others...

You're going to need a larger USB. If my guess is correct, you're using one-half or more for just the 3 ISO files.

[JusGellin]

Yes, I just used that one to rebuild Ventoy on it. I have another I use that is 64G which will be much better and faster as well.

[Clarity]

Forum distros will move into the 1GB/ISO sizes thruout 2024 as the modern technologies come online. The KL distros are leading the way forward currently. @dimkr's WoofCE Vanilla v11+ is also very modern technology on the forum.

By now, many of this forum distros have already embraced and package Pipewire for its audio advantages.

Some of the aspects of the modern technologies is "tiling" which is a wonderful solution for those who use TVs as replacements versus old monitors. Tiling allows more of the TV screen's real estate to be utilized placing more and more information in a user's view without having to jump between desktops or browser tabs.

On your distros, I just used the psave=... parm when launching the F96CE ISO from Ventoy. It goes to desktop and saves in the location specified by the psave= parm. Same occurs for BKWP64's ISO file. The bug still affect system behavior in that the partition with the BOOTISOS folder is 'locked', but all Puppy operations including saving sessions are normal.

I did not test FP v9.5 's ISO.

[JusGellin]

@Clarity
Could you tell me exactly how you did this?
Did you do this using SG2D?

or did you:
Select F96-CE_4.iso from the Ventoy menu
next select Boot in grub2 mode
Edit Grub menu for fossapup64 9.6
add psave=Persistence:/Sessions/
<F10> to boot

I want to make sure I'm doing it the same way you are.
Thanks

[Clarity]

@JusGellin YES. That is the path I tested yesterday.
I tested on an 10 year-old Intel. AND, as you already know, it works,too, when launced from SG2D. My 64GB USB folder looks like this, currently. It is used to boot any of the 4 test PCs I have connected via a KVM switch.

Code: Select all

# tree /mnt/sdg1/BOOTISOS  # display Ventoy USB
/mnt/sdg1/BOOTISOS
├── Acronis-v2019_Linux.iso
├── Acronis-v2019_Windows.iso
├── BookwormPup64_10.0.6.iso
├── DevuanPup_10.0_Xfce_beta_17.iso
├── F96-CE_4.iso
├── Fatdog64-901.iso
├── Fatdog64-901_240226-remaster.iso
├── Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-39-1.5.iso
├── Just-Lighthouse64-900.iso
├── KLA-HyprlandCE-1.0.iso
├── KLV-Airedale-RT.iso
├── KLV-Airedale-sr10.iso
├── KLV-Airedale-sr11.iso
├── KLV-HyprlandCE-5.0.iso
├── KLV-Spectr-sr1.iso
├── KLV-SpectrwmCE-2.0.iso
├── Linux distro package managers.txt
├── Remaster-FD901
│   └── Remaster screens
├── S15Pup64-22.12-240223.iso
├── SAVESPEC
├── TemServ-6.2.11-Installer-0909.iso
├── TermServ-Multiclient-Desktop-LiveCD-Demo.iso
├── ThinClient-Demo2.iso
├── ThinClient-Multiclient-Desktop-LiveCD-Demo.iso
├── VoidPup64-22.02-240208.iso
├── cachyos-kde-linux-240313.iso
├── clear-40830-kvm.img.xz
├── clear-40830-live-desktop.iso
├── easy-5.7-amd64.img
├── fossapup64-9.5-23v3.iso
├── jammypup64ce-10.0.iso
├── neon-testing-20240227-0254.iso
├── neon-testing-20240314-1503.iso
├── noble-desktop-amd64.iso
├── quickpup64_24.01-rc-2.iso
├── quickpup64_24.01-rc-3.iso
├── rescatux-0.73.iso
├── s15pup64-22.12-231209-ovrly-4.iso
├── s15pup64-22.12-231209-ovrly-4t.iso
├── sdesk-2024.02.28-x86_64.iso
├── slacko64-8.2.1.iso
├── super_grub2_disk_hybrid_2.04s1.iso
├── supergrub2-2.06s1-beta2-multiarch-CD.iso
├── supergrub2-2.06s1-beta2-multiarch-USB.img
├── ubuntu-23.10.1-desktop-amd64.iso
├── ventoy-1.0.51-livecd.iso
├── ventoy-1.0.53-livecd.iso
└── ventoy-1.0.97-livecd.iso

3 directories, 46 files

[JusGellin]

That's really impressive!! I thought I saw a diagram of yours hooked up to the KVM switch.

So you are able to boot those isos both ways. Do all of them boot both ways? I haven't done that many (only a measly 3) but so far they only boot using SG2D from Ventoy.

I see even some different versions of Ventoy isos. Is it useful to boot them also?
Thanks for sharing this.

[Clarity]

Your USB
Some of those distro are old. Most that are there will boot successfully one way or another. I use the USB for booting on bare-metal as welll as within QEMU VMs.

This all began when I discovered the productivity value of forum distros getting to desktop without the many-many issues of the tradition methods of distro use that existed few years back that many continue to use today, unnecessarily. Additionally, this effort has enormous success as it provides immediate ability to report to the forum developer if there are issues with their production getting to desktop. All most users (non-developers) want is a simple way to go from download to desktop without touching internals, or files to see if they like or want or can use a particular distro.

Your USB allows you to also quickly compare one distro versus another ... or even one version versus another with little to no effort(s) to achieve that level of testing.

In my case, its just plain simple....Ventoy, set the folder on it, download the SG2D and then add all ISO you want to use...you are now ready to go to desktop with any of them in any environment.

PXE
Also there is another aspect of booting I have tinkered with as well known as PXE. There are 3 known methods of PXE that I have tested with forum distros (FD works in each). PXE booting is beyond the scope of what you have been discussing. I may publish additional findings of successful implementations sometime in the futures.

Centralized boot success reporting
I remember approaching a moderator requesting approval of making a table on the forum showing which forum ISOs boot successfully and which do not in bare-metal or QEMU environments. Hopefully I will get an acknowledgement back and I will produce tables.

Enjoy your tool. Use it to reduce your workload as you see fit.

P.S. I AM NOT a developer nor an internals person of ANY sort on ANY platform. All of my focus is merely on testing the boot issues and the session issues encountered in this forum's distros. Nothing more. There are many others on this forum with superior knowledge of other Linux and hardware aspects beyond the little I do or know.