Puppy won't boot after creating first puppy save

[Clarity]

@MikeLvG I CANNOT answer what may have gone wrong with your shutdown-reboot.

But I offer some ideas

DO NOT EVER save sessions on a USB stick. (Oh it will work, but ...) USB sticks are terrible!!! ... for a number of reasons. If you want to save your sessions from ANY forum distro, put in on your PC's system drive. In other words, create a partition. I recommend that if you do create a partition, you make it linux formatted (ext2/ext3/ext4) and I also recommend you create a folder on that partition named Sessions; for good housekeeping purposes. I label my partition I use for my sessions as "Persistence"

ALL of distos I use from this forum are guided to keep saves in the Sessions folder, described above

Consider if you find this pathway reasonable.

[vtpup]

Would have been important to look at your grub.cfg or grub menu.lst to see what the boot command section was doing. Probably some small problem there.

[vtpup]

@MikeLvG I CANNOT answer what may have gone wrong with your shutdown-reboot.

But I offer some ideas

DO NOT EVER save sessions on a USB stick. (Oh it will work, but ...) USB sticks are terrible!!! ... for a number of reasons. If you want to save your sessions from ANY forum distro, put in on your PC's system drive. In other words, create a partition. I recommend that if you do create a partition, you make it linux formatted (ext2/ext3/ext4) and I also recommend you create a folder on that partition named Sessions; for good housekeeping purposes. I label my partition I use for my sessions as "Persistence"

ALL of distos I use from this forum are guided to keep saves in the Sessions folder, described above

Consider if you find this pathway more reasonable.

DO NOT EVER take as an absolute commandment what someone capitalizes on a forum. It's really just a matter of hitting a shift key.

Many people have run Puppy linux, historically, on old laptops and computers with dead HDDs using savefiles on USB thumbdrives. All drives have their various and different problems. Backups of savefiles are easy, and better than shouting NEVER DO THUS....

Consider if lower case pathways are reasonable.

[vtpup]

If you haven't yet rebuilt your system, I would still like to hear what Gparted says about your USB drive (a screenshot would be great).

And also I'd like to see what grub.cfg or grub's menu.lst says (right click, open as text).

One, or the other, is found usually on the first partition (win formatted) of your USB drive.

[MikeLvG]

Would have been important to look at your grub.cfg or grub menu.lst to see what the boot command section was doing. Probably some small problem there.

@vtpup ,
I've attached txt copies of these files from the FAT32 bootable partition on my USB Stick. Being new to Linux and Puppy, I'm embarrassed to say that I'm not able to interpret a lot of this just yet.

[vtpup]

First change needed is to change pmedia=cd to pmedia=usbflash

Is yoursavefile on the top of the second partition, or in a directory on that partition?

We will need to add a pdrv= parameter and possibly a psubdir= parameter. Gparted can help with the first, and you can say whether things are in a subdirectory

[MikeLvG]

Is yoursavefile on the top of the second partition, or in a directory on that partition?

I am using a save folder in the second partition. It’s called fossapup64save. It is at the top of the directory. The other two objects at that level are a folder called lost+found, and a file called persistence.conf.

[vtpup]

Where is a file called vmlinuz on your usb stick?

Also, If you still have a copy of the original F96-CE ISO file, where is it, on the usb stick, or on your computer's main drive?

[vtpup]

Okay, I think I can actually answer my own questions at this point after digging around the F96-CE ISO. My guess is you are still booting off of the ISO and there is no usual fugal installation on your USB stick. Which means you won't be able to find vmlinuz (it's still in the ISO).

So, I think the easiest way to solve all this is, (if you have the room on your internal drive):

1.) We will boot up into F96-CE in RAM only.
2.) We will copy your savefolder to the internal HD
3.) We will do an installation of F96-CE to the USB drive from Puppy
4.) We will test that installation by booting into it and creating a quick savefolder stub
5.) We will reboot, checking to see if the new savefolder works
6.) We will rename the old savefolder and then move it onto the USB stick
7,) if everything is okay, during next boot you will be given a choice to use either of the savefolders. Choose the old one.
8.) if that works we will delete the new one.

Does that sound okay?

[vtpup]

If you try the above steps on your own, I recommend using Menu>Setup>f2stickpup for doing the installation on the thumbdrive. It will fully reformat the stick and create the two needed partitions.

Note: if the ISO you want to install from is residing already on the stick, that will get clobbered in this process. Be sure you have a copy of the F-96-CE ISO on your main drive, and select that one to copy from when asked for a "Source".

Also, once you've tested that the new installation will boot up and works to create a new savefolder, you should rename your old savefolder before moving it to the usb drive so it doesn't conflict with the new one's name. I'm not sure about savefolder name altering but I think you can just tack something onto the end of "fossapup64save" and it should be seen. However if it isn't seen, just delete the new savefolder (it's just temporary for testing) keep you old savefolder named properly fossapup64save.

[williwaw]

can you report what the heading says on your boot screen after you exit the F12 menu?

menu.lst and grub,cfg are configurations for two different bootloaders and your edits will need to go to the correct file

[vtpup]

williwaw, not going to bother editing the configs at this point. It was never installed to USB stick. It's booting off of the ISO like it's a CD. Needs a real Puppy install to stick.

Simpler to just save the present savefolder onto HD, then do a proper install to stick, then restore the savefolder onto the stick, per steps above.

f2stickpup will write the proper configs after formatting the stick.

[williwaw]

@vt,
on second thought your advice to reformat the usb with f2stickpup seems like the better way foreward for Mike.
watching with interest............

[Clarity]

@vtpup and @MikeLvG I am not following how we got to this point.

I am confused, too. (happens to all of us from time to time where specifics are missing)

This started with the OP saying he has a running 'installed' PUP on his USB and is trying to save the session to his USB.

Where did the idea he booted with an ISO file come from? Are we addressing the same environment to help?

I was seeking to try to provide a known pathway for good performance when sessions are saved/used. This does not seem to be a installed PUP issue as described. So my attention was and is on a method that eliminates USB issues when both saving and using a PUPs session.

If this is NOT the problem or if a change is occurring, let's be specific.
If it is the problem, my recommendation still stands as good place to start not only for this problem, but for all future PUP use the OP might have with the forum's distros.

[MikeLvG]

Hello everyone. First, let me again extend my thanks to everyone who has shared information and knowledge with me through this thread. You all are a great community and I'm thankful to have corresponded with you.

Being a newbie, I mistakenly thought that using rufus with a persistent partition was the correct way to "install" Puppy onto a USB flash drive. I didn't even know StickPup or f2StickPup were things until very recently.

Today I took the advice to use StickPup instead. First, I tried booting into Friendly Fossa from a CD I'd previously burned. Unfortunately, when I tried to run StickPup from there, it kept giving me a message that it failed to format the FAT32 partition. It gave this message almost immediately, and the drive was already formatted in FAT32, so I was scratching my head. I took the drive and plugged it into my Windows 10 machine and ran DISKPART to clean it up and whatnot, but still, StickPup would not work. I then decided that since F96-CE was newer anyway, maybe I should try that. I didn't have a disk for that yet (I only had a disk for Friendly Fossa). So, I burned a new disk for F96-CE, then booted into that. From there, I ran f2StickPup and it ran seemingly without issues. I made some appearance changes (new background, etc.), then rebooted and Puppy saved my changes! At that point, it was even booting properly from the PC BIOS boot order (USB first) without issue (see a previous post about that). After shutting down the PC and going out for a while, I came back and was mildly frustrated to find that once again, the PC was not booting up from the Flash drive without me first mashing F12 to tell it to boot from USB (again, see previous post). I guess I'll keep mashing F12 for now. (Maybe someday I'll muster the courage to update the PC's BIOS, but I've always been a believer that if it works, DON'T TOUCH IT!

After booting into Puppy with my save properly loaded, I poked around some more and found that Puppy was booting into PUPMODE=12 by default. This seemed sub-optimal based on previous advice in this thread, so I edited grup.cfg to indicate pmedia=usbflash, then rebooted. After that, Puppy reported that it was running in PUPMODE=13.

Man, I've still got so much to learn here. But then again, no one becomes competent in anything overnight. I know I'll get there as long as I stay patient, and especially with the guidance of folks like you all.

Thank you all again!
-MikeLvG

[Clarity]

Thanks @MikeLvG for this update. Clears up thing, quite a bit.

[williwaw]

After shutting down the PC and going out for a while, I came back and was mildly frustrated to find that once again, the PC was not booting up from the Flash drive without me first mashing F12 to tell it to boot from USB (again, see previous post). I guess I'll keep mashing F12 for now. (Maybe someday I'll muster the courage to update the PC's BIOS, but I've always been a believer that if it works, DON'T TOUCH IT! ;)

Knowing that the bios is capable of working OK sometimes, I would definitely replace the cmos battery before considering any updates to BIOS.

[vtpup]

Okay, good to hear you eventually used f2stickpup as I suggested, and things worked out, though you didn't retain your first savefolder, as I was trying to help you to do. The formatting problem you had was why I suggested that particular installer, rather than stickpup.

Now to tackle the F12 issue. Nobody has yet established the cause, and it isn't necessarily the BIOS (or CMOS battery which allows it to retain settings).

You can absolutely determine the cause by finding out what actually changed between sessions. Because it is certain that something did change.Was it a BIOS setting (like fastboot being enabled again after being turned off), or was it the boot configuration file (grub.cfg) on the first partition of the thumbdrive?

First of all, check the BIOS fastboot and the boot order settings. Have they reverted to something you don't want? Has the boot order changed in Bios? The boot order should be set to CD/DVD first, then USB, and then your hard drive. Fastboot must be off. If any of these settings have returned to something you didn't want, there are two possibilities. One is that the CMOS battery is too weak to retain BIOS settings. The other is that Windows or something else has reset that parameter possibly as a backup safeguard. Or finally, it's possible to make a mistake, change settings the way you want, but forget to save them when you are done.

If nothing in the BIOS has changed. Then the problem is on the thumbdrive. Again as I have suggested since the beginning, the thumbdrive may be marginally too slow during the boot process so that sometimes it is recognized and sometimes it isn't. Mashing the f12 button gives it time to initialize in a way that direct booting may not. If you find that the BIOS settings seem intact, please get yourself a Sandisk USB 2.0 thumbdrive, which is the USB type port type that I believe you era computer has. I have had a few laptops from that era that will not boot off of a USB 3 thumbdrive. Sandisk is a known good brand. USB 2 Sandisk thumbdrives can be had for about $5 and change at Walmart, if you live near one.

If you do that, use f2stickpup installer to partition and install your puppy variety on that thumbdrive.

[vtpup]

Two more pieces of information for you in your learning process. Stickpup needs not only a drive formatted in FAT32 but it also needs of have what is called a Boot flag set on that partition. Windows won't do that, itself. Windows only wants to boot from its own drive, normally.

I suggest that you start learning to use Gparted in Puppy linux, located in Menu>System to look at your USB drive's structure. It will show you partition sizes, how much room is left, partition types, flags set, and much else at a glance.

You can repartition, change flags or partition types, shrink expand and move partitions, check and repair them. Gparted works by having you mark what change you want, then you implement them second. So it gives you time to look at what you are about to do graphically, to make sure.

Just be sure to only do that with a thumbdrive, until you learn more. Don't do any operations on your hard drive. Always check which drive you are on

[MikeLvG]

I wanted to drop a note here in case anyone was interested. I continued to experience issues with the laptop booting up my puppy after the first save occurred. I’m slowly working though variables as I have time and patience. I have replaced the CMOS battery in the laptop but that did not make a difference. I also confirmed the boot order in the BIOS is optical first, USB second, HDD third, LAN fourth, and FDD fifth.

My next step will be to get a sandisk usb 2.0 drive when I have time to go to a big box store to get one.

Is there a recommended size for a USB stick that is a sweet spot for puppy? The ones I’m seeing online as “in store now” are 64GB.

[williwaw]

quality is the most important with puppy sandisk pny kingston
if your laptop is older with 2.0 ports, a 3.0 drive can help a little, but paying for the latest and greatest3.1 speedwise is not really going to pay off
capicity is your choice, but older models meeting the above conditions will be your best value.

[geo_c]

[DO NOT EVER take as an absolute commandment what someone capitalizes on a forum. It's really just a matter of hitting a shift key.
Consider if lower case pathways are reasonable.

This line I'll be stealing! A real gem, especially the "it's really just a matter of hitting the shift key" part.

I have to concur about being one of those people who have run systems completely from USB sticks. In fact I ran all my early pups from USB while keeping Windows on the internal hard drive. Glad to have ditched windows to free up my internal drives so the machines are completely dedicated to pups.

Of course, you might not get good results plugging those thumbsticks into outboard USB HUBS or using cheap low performance sticks. I try to use at least 128gb sticks that are fairly fast and well built.

That being said, a USB hard drive could be a more reliable choice. At the moment I have a slammin' 3TB ssd USB drive that runs a whole host of forum distros. And a PNY 512GB metal thumb drive that has been working flawlessy with 10+ forum OSs on it for several years now. It'll fail someday of course, so everything is duplicated elsewhere.

Again I NEVER BOOT FROM A USB HUB.....

edit: actually not true, some machines see the boot partition plugged into a hub, and I periodically forget I have a bootable stick in the hub and it boots. But I NEVER KEEP RUNNING IT THAT WAY.

[williwaw]

if setting up a new disk or USB, you might consider trying to turn off everything in the bios associated with UEFI and installing grub4dos or another mbr only bootloader.

this does not mean that you cannot have a small fat32 partition at the beginning of the drive in case you want to try a UEFI bootloader later.

some of the EFI or UEFI firmware's (BIOS) of that era had a mind of their own. I have an HP that "reverts" uefi settings and needs the "F12" treatment. It might be something to do with booting from USBs IIRC.