Waydroid on BookwormDog

a very small Live CD shaped to look and act like Puppy Linux.

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Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

Well BookwormPup (an official Puppy Linux now) has access to the Debian Bookworm repositories and can use apt-get. Great. But no Puppy comes with systemd. And at this point I am pretty convinced thats a necessity for Waydroid. Same errors that MX23 did run in non-systemd mode, though it worked fine with systemd option. Yea MX gives you option of systemd everytime you boot. Well until some bright person figures out a workaround for Waydroid in non-systemd. Above my pay grade.

Well Fred on the forum for long time has offered his own Dogs, basically mini Debian or Ubuntu that can use those repositories. Well he stopped making iso versions and instead offers a script to create them. Even has an appimage of his script. You make it executable and run it on any modern linux system. So I did and it offers option of systemd. So plain jane vanilla with JWM window manager and systemd, everything else default. And on the i7 it pooped this out fairly fast.

Well tried it on a thumb drive that must be the slowest clunkiest thumbdrive ever. Nope. So just like BookwormPup, put BookwormDog to boot from folder inside of Lubuntu 18.04. Its on a HP Stream I used to take to library. Too old to have repository access anymore but it works well on the Stream. But space enough and Lubuntu contributes GRUB2 bootloader.

So finally after figuring out BookwormDog doesnt want to be in the puppies directory, took it out and it booted. I got the menuentry for it from forum or something. But it was acting strange like it was trying to Bogart the RAM, said I was running out of room and not hardrive room, but ramdisk it created I guess. Finally got informed by Fred that I had wrong setting in GRUB2 menuentry. There are three options and I had unknowingly picked the one to run in RAM and only save to changes folder when I shut down. The other two options are to continually read and write to the changes folder (one I wanted) and third that it will temporarily write to changes folder and I choose whether it will be saved on reboot.

Once that was straightened out, went at it, "apt update" and installed weston "apt install weston"

Then per the Waydroid website instructions for Debian/Ubuntu, added the repository for Waydroid.

  1. apt install curl
  2. apt install curl ca-certificates -y
  3. curl https://repo.waydro.id | sudo bash
  4. apt update
  5. apt install waydroid

Now to try it before worrying about Houdini...

  1. In a terminal type "weston" (without quotes)

A weston wayland screen should pop up. Maximize it. Now at top lefthand side, you will see a built in terminal button. Click on this and a terminal will open inside the wayland screen. Its important you use this terminal. Type "waydroid first-launch". Depending on speed of your computer, this will cause a popup wanting to download two android image files from Sourceforge. You can do this and good luck to you. First time I tried it and it spent bunch time and data downloading only to tell me the hash didnt match... So after rinse and repeat with same result, I downloaded the two files with a browser, unzipped them, and manually copied them to /etc/waydroid-extra/images directory which yes, you will have to create. Then in that terminal inside the weston screen, I typed "waydroid init -f" This is command to use local image files. (EDIT: For some unknown reason if you use this way of using local image files, you need to type "sudo waydroid init -f" and you shouldnt since you are already in root, but it tries to start downloading rather than using local img files if you dont. The -f flag is to tell it to use the img files in /etc/waydroid-extra/images/]

Now in the weston terminal again "waydroid first-launch" and you will see a screen with curved line, and little circle every second until finally three circles equidistant and word Lineage appears. Then if the fates are feeling kind, the android desktop will load.

You can try the browser, there is an icon for it on the desktop. Its an android x86 app so can run without Houdini.

Great you have a working install of Waydroid. But wait you say, you want more, namely to be able to run ARM android apps? Well you need Houdini. https://github.com/casualsnek/waydroid_script Use this script, you will have to "apt install git" You will also have to install venv

Then...
git clone https://github.com/casualsnek/waydroid_script
cd waydroid_script
python3 -m venv venv
venv/bin/pip install -r requirements.txt
venv/bin/python3 main.py

This will offer a little dialog to install Houdini and some other options if you want them. I suggest microg and libhoudini. They suggest widevine also.

And you should be able to sideload ARM android apps and run them. "waydroid app install /path2apk" How successfully, well that depends on the app I think and your computer's resources. Its a bit like trying to run windows apps in WINE. Maybe it works, maybe not. Though better chance since Waydroid uses a real Lineage version Android 11 rather than an approximation of windows, like WINE does.

I can tell you from experience, Houdini seems to be a big limiting factor. It translates ARM to x86 so is a drag on the process. Faster computer going to do better.

But hey that was my successful experiment with Bookworm Dog. Only linux to let me run the Kindle4Android app via Waydroid on that HP Stream with its very limited resources. I wanted the lightest possible linux that could run Waydroid. It is the only way to really use Waydroid on the HP Stream that is a very low end computer. When I booted Bodhi from usb SSD and opened Waydroid. Well took a while, but got to the desktop and I could use the x86 android browser but when I installed Kindle app and tried to open it, it first stuck on Kindle splash, then crashed. Doesnt crash with BookwormDog.

Now if you dont want to bother with Waydroid, you can install PrimeOS, or BlissOS or Android x86 in a root directory, then make a bootloader entry to boot them. https://itsfoss.community/t/install-pri ... istro/7405 This takes fewer resources since you are running android bare metal with no linux (Houdini is built into these). But you do have to shut down linux and reboot into android doing it like this where you can just minimize weston to the tray to use linux, then maximize to use android. On a GNOME or KDE desktop its even easier to toggle back and forth, especially if you have a touchscreen.

I will also mention that 64bit version of any Android requires your processor support SSE4.2 instructions. Check this before even thinking about Waydroid. There are older plenty fast computers that dont. And remember with Waydroid you are running both linux and android at same time, so takes more resources. It really is lot like WINE, windows apps on WINE, the ones that work can be much slower than on native windows. Others just as fast.

Oh just a heads up, most reading this arent going to use Waydroid for Kindle or any other ereader. But there is an epub reader available for android called Librera. This is a cool opensource app. Well it offers option to use text to voice to read books. Now Waydroid doesnt come with text to voice engine from Google. But there is an alternative from Fdroid called RHVoice. I installed the apk along with the voice offered for English. And set it as default text to voice engine, and Librera could use it. Librera even gives tools to adjust pitch and speed. Yep you can have Waydroid read books to you, well epub books. Librera even lets you search Project Gutenberg and download free from there from within Librera. Kindle has prevented text to speech as it cuts into sales of their audio books I guess. Used to be an option in their app. Now you would have to de-DRM them to do this.

Last edited by mouldy on Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by fredx181 »

Thanks !
Got waydroid working on non systemd Bookworm with a workaround.
The reason that it didn't work is simply that the waydroid package doesn't provide a sysvinit service script (only systemd service) so it seems that it's not really depending on systemd.
Adding a script in /root/Startup with the following fixes it for me:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash
/usr/bin/waydroid -w container start

Reboot or re-login required to apply.
(didn't go any further yet btw (installing Houdini, will try later) )

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

Thats cool. Glad it was something simple. I will have to try it. Kinda annoying to be limited to systemd systems. I thought maybe a way cause VOID linux has Waydroid in repositories, but doesnt use systemd. They however offer a cutting edge version weston I couldnt get to work. Oh and if you get into this a bit, I would be curious how I could use Sway compositor rather than Weston. I tried at different times, but Waydroid just wouldnt see it. Lot of this stuff isnt really designed for casual users, more for very experienced developer types.

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by fredx181 »

Could make waydroid also work on Daedalus (Devuan equivalent of Bookworm) , installed it on the Starter Kit : viewtopic.php?t=644
But instead of "curl https://repo.waydro.id | sudo bash" (gives error that daedalus is not supported) I just manually added this to /etc/apt/sources.list :
deb [trusted=yes] https://repo.waydro.id/ bookworm main
Followed by apt update; apt install waydroid weston

EDIT: (forgot to say earlier with my test on Bookworm)
At the end of installing waydroid, there's suggestion to run waydroid init
Did that, but first time I got error about not matching hash, as @mouldy also mentioned.
Did apt upgrade (upgraded python3) and second time it worked.
Will extract to /var/lib/waydroid/images after download.

Anyway if it still gives error, these are the files, download with browser and extract in /var/lib/waydroid/images
https://sourceforge.net/projects/waydro ... p/download
https://sourceforge.net/projects/waydro ... p/download

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

oh fellow on the Bodhi board had suggested couple desktop menu entries to make starting and stopping Waydroid easier. They do. Probably a slicker way but this works and fairly convenient.

[Desktop Entry]
Type=Application
Name=WaydroidSTART
Exec=sh -c "weston --width=1280 --height=665 -Swayland-droid & WAYLAND_DISPLAY=wayland-droid waydroid show-full-ui"
Icon=waydroid
Categories=X-WayDroid-App;
X-Purism-FormFactor=Workstation;Mobile;

[Desktop Entry]
Type=Application
Name=WaydroidSTOP
Exec=sh -c "waydroid session stop && killall weston"
Icon=waydroid
Categories=X-WayDroid-App;
X-Purism-FormFactor=Workstation;Mobile;

Notice you can adjust size of weston screen that opens. Waydroid will use whatever size screen you create. For some apps you might want a smaller screen. Or depending on size of monitor, you might want it bigger. You will have to experiment to find what works for you. Once you create these in /usr/share/applications, just drag them to the desktop.

EDIT: Ok, looks like [sh -c] is unreliable here, sometimes works, sometimes not. I ended up creating couple small scripts in /usr/sbin and calling those.

Last edited by mouldy on Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

I left weston window small so you could better see it on BookwormDog.

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by wiak »

mouldy wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:40 pm

oh fellow on the Bodhi board had suggested couple desktop menu entries to make starting and stopping Waydroid easier. They do. Probably a slicker way but this works and fairly convenient.

[Desktop Entry]
Type=Application
Name=WaydroidSTART
Exec=sh -c "weston --width=1280 --height=665 -Swayland-droid & WAYLAND_DISPLAY=wayland-droid waydroid show-full-ui"
Icon=waydroid
Categories=X-WayDroid-App;
X-Purism-FormFactor=Workstation;Mobile;

[Desktop Entry]
Type=Application
Name=WaydroidSTOP
Exec=sh -c "waydroid session stop && killall weston"
Icon=waydroid
Categories=X-WayDroid-App;
X-Purism-FormFactor=Workstation;Mobile;

Interesting stuff! I tried this, though for now just using a terminal command per the above 'weston ... commandline'

I get the above Lineage window okay, and that screen immediately below that with the five round icons and 10:17 time on it (different time of course)
But then, after a bit, I just get an apparently endless screen with line like an eyebrow on it and a circle moving left to right in endless loop...
Did I miss something?

EDIT: Nope, I maybe imagined the 10:17 screen with icons - I just seem to get Lineage screen following by endless loop circle thing. Possibly because I have such bad Internet connection??! I can try again later next time I'm in a cafe that has Starlink.

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by dcung »

Got me interested - since I use LineageOS on my Pixel 2XL phone.
Tried it using Bookworm DDOG-sd

At first I used Dell D630 - T8300 CPU -> Error doing first-launch, no SSE4.2 support.

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.
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Then I switched to Fujitsu with i5 CPU - got further than the D630.

Trying to install Houdini - Not successful yet.

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

wiak wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 4:51 am

I just seem to get Lineage screen following by endless loop circle thing. Possibly because I have such bad Internet connection??! I can try again later next time I'm in a cafe that has Starlink.

Nope, internet not necessary just to get to the Waydroid-Lineage desktop. You are actually booting android within a linux session. Try running BlissOS bare metal sometime, it will do this exact same thing. PrimeOS booted bare metal has different active splash screen, but again same difference. Lineage (android) crashed going to desktop. Once you see the lineage screen, it should go to android desktop (like on phone or tablet) unless it crashes. If it crashes like this, click the terminal button at top of weston screen and then type "waydroid session stop" and then again "waydroid first-launch" and it will try for real again. The little circles traveling the curve is just an active slash screen to entertain you while it loads. Much like the little dots in circle on win10 or the static flash screen many linux distributions use to hide the actual load screen. Why the actual load screen seems to worry people so much, no idea, I rather see what is actually going on rather than some meaningless "PONG game" Least most linux you push esc key and it will show actual load screen.

It is more prone to crash on lower spec computer. This point of going to android desktop seems to be a resource intense one. Matter of fact you will get clearer picture of whats going on and what to expect, if you actually try booting BlissOS, PrimeOS, or Android x86 independent of linux. They boot easier indepedently cause your computer isnt trying to run both linux and android at same time.

BlissOS I think is by same developers as Waydroid. You will see the same circles traveling the curve and "LINEAGE" and same android desktop. PrimeOS (also android 11) has different active splash screen and different desktop.

Last edited by mouldy on Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

dcung wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:50 am

Got me interested - since I use LineageOS on my Pixel 2XL phone.
Tried it using Bookworm DDOG-sd

At first I used Dell D630 - T8300 CPU -> Error doing first-launch, no SSE4.2 support.
2024-03-16-162611_1034x639_scrot.png
.
.
.
Then I switched to Fujitsu with i5 CPU - got further than the D630.

Trying to install Houdini - Not successful yet.
2024-03-16-173716_1034x639_scrot.png

Yea annoyed me I couldnt use my old core2duo desktop for this. Its fast enough, but processor has to support SSE4.2 instructions. You can run android x86 apps without Houdini, unfortunately other than browsers, there arent many of them. Android was intended for ARM processors. You can use the browser built into Waydroid without Houdini. There are some x86 android apps on Fdroid site too. But yea for most things you will need Houdini.

Waydroid is 64bit only but there are 32bit versions of Android x86 that will run on older computers without SSE4.2. However I found 32bit versions lot less useful and lot more crashy. Running android on x86 computer still work in progress.

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

I did run across mention of some modified version 64bit PrimeOS that will run on computers not supporting SSE4.2. But when I went searching, it seems some small group that is very secretive about it unless you join their group. In other words I have doubts it exists.

It gets worse though, seems some android apps now sniff for SSE4.2. So even if you find that rare version PrimeOS, the apps may still refuse. Seems android app writers get very paranoid for some reason.

I have to say my biggest reason to get Waysdroid working was cause the stupid Kindle app SNIFFS FOR A WIFI connection. Claims I am not connected despite being tethered. I mean the app will even use the tether connection to try and sell me books but wont show me my library without a wifi connection. Using say PrimeOS, I have to actually create a local (non-internet) wifi hotspot, connect to that with android wifi, then start Kindle app. Kindle sniffs and finds that wifi then starts using my Easytether connection. Its not the only android app that does this. There use to be an android app that would fake a wifi connection without using a hotspot on another computer or a non-connected router. But its old and no longer updated so doesnt work. This seems like the stupidest thing ever, but then I remember PlayOnLinux does this too.

Waydroid however shares the linux internet connection with the android apps and somehow they are happy without insisting on wifi. Is also more convenient for me not to have to reboot into android. Yea all this cause Kindle for PC has 2.3.x versions now wont run on WINE. And the 1.38-1.40 are on last legs, had message one book wouldnt download until I updated to 2.3.x version. When I did then 2.3.x wouldnt show my Kindle library. Some bit of it not supported in WINE. So found newest Kindle for Android will download books..... Sure most people interested in Waydroid more interested in android games. Sorry cant tell you how well those work in Waydroid. I did download an android version spider solitaire and it works fine. But that isnt the kind of game people are looking for.

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

https://docs.waydro.id/faq/setting-up-a-shared-folder People might find this useful to transfer files back and forth as Waydroid runs in a container so you cant easily swap back and forth. I did find USUALLY another way is to use a thumbdrive formatted to fat32. Though I had one situation remastering waydroid into Dog, that when booted via live dvd that waydroid wouldnt see the thumbdrive though Dog did. Yea thats an extreme and just experiment to see if it could work. But done normally, waydroid can see the thumb drive.

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

Ok, whatever Dog is using default, XTerm or UXTerm, its not working well calling/running a script in the desktop shortcuts, though it works ok if I say open an XTerm terminal and manually type the script name. Since I like it better anyway I had installed kitty terminal emulator as I can copy and paste. So in the desktop shortcut files, used "kitty -e" to launch scripts. Wow made a big difference. Now cant use it with "sh -c". So still going to have to make a script in /usr/sbin (or wherever) and call that script with "kitty -e". Your mileage may vary, but waydroid loaded faster like this for me. May just be my computer, no idea. If something works better for my situation, then thats the way I do it. For anybody unaware there are a zillion terminal emulators in linux. Just find one you like. Some have different options. Hmm... wonder how "xterm -e" would work as it would force the script to run in xterm terminal. I think if not all, most support the -e flag. What does the desktop shortcuts use by default? Oh now thats interesting, wonder if one could use "sh -c" to then run the various parts with "kitty -e" for each. Guess it would depend if "sh -c" can call "kitty -e" I know gets really complex to make stuff work way you want sometimes.

There are all kinds quirks. For some reason if I boot Dog from usb on the Stream, I get a darkish screen. Same boot on other computers and its fine. Puppy by way doesnt boot with dark screen on the Stream. I can brighten it somewhat with xrandr, but not normal brightness. So??? Just some weirdness in how particular things interact. Suppose I should try booting full Debian Bookworm on the Stream and see what it does. Could be a Debian thing I suppose.

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by fredx181 »

mouldy wrote:

There are all kinds quirks. For some reason if I boot Dog from usb on the Stream, I get a darkish screen. Same boot on other computers and its fine. Puppy by way doesnt boot with dark screen on the Stream. I can brighten it somewhat with xrandr, but not normal brightness. So??? Just some weirdness in how particular things interact. Suppose I should try booting full Debian Bookworm on the Stream and see what it does. Could be a Debian thing I suppose.

Probably often that's a kernel version thing, for example on my laptop the stock bookworm kernel need's a workaround from the boot cmdline, if not, the system crashes when changing resolution to other than default. Booting with a newer kernel there's no such problem (but also sometimes the fix can be to use an older kernel).

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

fredx181 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:44 pm
mouldy wrote:

There are all kinds quirks. For some reason if I boot Dog from usb on the Stream, I get a darkish screen. Same boot on other computers and its fine. Puppy by way doesnt boot with dark screen on the Stream. I can brighten it somewhat with xrandr, but not normal brightness. So??? Just some weirdness in how particular things interact. Suppose I should try booting full Debian Bookworm on the Stream and see what it does. Could be a Debian thing I suppose.

Probably often that's a kernel version thing, for example on my laptop the stock bookworm kernel need's a workaround from the boot cmdline, if not, the system crashes when changing resolution to other than default. Booting with a newer kernel there's no such problem (but also sometimes the fix can be to use an older kernel).

Found the solution. Had to add "acpi_backlight=vendor" to GRUB configuration file. Now boots with a nice bright screen just like the other linux which oddly dont seem to need this added to GRUB..... go figure.

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

Oh for pete's sake, it is stupid simple to use Sway instead of Weston. Install Sway, type sway in terminal. Up pops sway compositor screen. Now push the "windows" key and enter. Up pops "foot" terminal. Type "waydroid first-launch" And there your are. I personally like Sway bit better than Weston, but not really important. No idea why this seemed such a challenge. But no mention of this.

By way in VOID linux, they only offer some cutting edge version Weston that I couldnt get to work. So Sway be good option in such a situation. I mean I could not get a Weston screen to come up in VOID, but i easily got a Sway screen. There are other compositors, just lesser known. Seems if you can get screen to come up and a terminal inside of that compositor screen, then you can start Waydroid to use it via that terminal. Yea stupid simple stuff but nobody talks about it. End user types like me need a simple recipe least that first time.

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by dancytron »

So you would recommend using Sway if I wanted to try this???

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

dancytron wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 5:43 pm

So you would recommend using Sway if I wanted to try this???

Its not a big challenge to "apt install sway" and "apt install foot". So try it both ways and whatever works for you. There are quite few wayland compositors, but maybe not so many you can install from repository. All little different. one thing, sway is one of those apps that you have to run as user, cause heaven forbid you want to run it as root, the world might end. LOL. Weston can be run as root, least the current version in the Debian repositories. Sway seems a bit faster, but you may not like the tiling effect, especially if you dont have touch screen. Sway is a tiling compositor, weston is a stacking compositor. Here is a list of 44 if you want more choices: https://www.slant.co/topics/11023/~wayland-compositors Just to provide one screen for waydroid, not sure it matters a lot.

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by mouldy »

Oh Sway has a configuration file, you need to move to /home/puppy/.config

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Re: Waydroid on BookwormDog

Post by dcung »

dcung wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:50 am

At first I used Dell D630 - T8300 CPU -> Error doing first-launch, no SSE4.2 support.

Out of topic a little - but I thought a little relevant for those thinking of trying/testing waydroid which as @mouldy said, requires SSE 4.2.
While testing/troubleshooting on another issue, I found that CPU-X shows whether your CPU is capable (and of which version SSE).
I knew my D630 is capable of SSE, but I didn't know/remember what version of SSE. If I knew CPU-X give these details, I would have checked first, as I have CPU-X appimage on most of my laptops.

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