Can Fossa64 Mid be installed on a USB drive?

[chopsticks]

When I install it on a USB drive using etcher, it doesn't appear as an option during boot-up. However, when I install with fossapup64 9.5, I can select it, but it seems that grub.cfg cannot be found.
Is this a compatibility issue? Or am I doing something wrong?
I am using a Macbook Pro 2015, and I can load fossapup64 9.5.
I am using a translation.

[ozsouth]

@chopsticks - short answer is yes it can be installed to usb. It is probably a grub.cfg issue. I made this to boot from CD & install from there, for older (legacy) pcs, as the inbuilt installer is legacy only. I have never used etcher, rufus, stickpup, etc, so can't help with that. I have it installed to an ssd (efi), done manually. I suggest checking to see if the sfs files & vmlinuz are actually on your usb stick, & then copying the fossapup9.5 config & editing it to reflect fossamid's folder.

[mikewalsh]

@chopsticks :-

Etcher has never, ever worked for us here in Puppyland. It has the perennial problem of not being able to "see" or "find" the Puppy SFS files; it doesn't know what they are, and doesn't understand what to do with them.....

.....and Macs have never been the easiest beasts to install/run ANY form of Linux on.

Mike.

[mikeslr]

chopsticks, you were told on your previous thread that you can not use etcher to locate a fully functional Puppy on a USB-Key: that it only creates installation media. Changing Puppies doesn't change etcher's inability.

You've told us you have a mac. Which mac? running which macOS? Does it also run Windows?

There have been posts (I think on the 'old forum') about running Puppys on some macs. And from you post on the Fossapup64 thread, it appears that you can boot into Fossapup.

How large is your USB-Key?

Unetbootin can be used to write Puppy to a USB-Key and there's a version of Unetbootin which runs under (some) Macs. You can obtain it here, https://unetbootin.github.io/. The web-page suggest you may have to format the USB-Key as Fat32. We won't know until you try it.

I've never used Unetbootin to deploy a Puppy to a USB-Key. Bigpup has and provided the insight that Unetbootin writes pmedia=cd to the grub.cfg file. This has to be changed to pmedia=usbflash. You do that by opening the grub.cfg file in a text editor.

But even Bigpup's experience with Unetbootin was under Windows. We won't know if there are other complications until you try it.

[chopsticks]

Thank you. While MacOS does work, since fossapup64 9.5 is operational, I thought it might be better if I could install on a USB from within Puppy.

[chopsticks]

I suggest checking to see if the sfs files & vmlinuz are actually on your usb stick, & then copying the fossapup9.5 config & editing it to reflect fossamid's folder.

I would like to know more about this, or if there are any related forum posts, please let me know.

Before the change, the sentence was:
I'd appreciate it if you could provide more details on that, or if there are any related forum responses, please let me know.

[ozsouth]

@chopsticks - Ok, instructions aren't my strong suit, but I'll try.
The picture below shows a list of files contained in the fossamid iso.
I mounted it by clicking on the iso in ROX-Filer (puppy's default filemanager).
Both initrd.gz & vmlinuz go a folder on the boot partition of your bootable usb stick.
Files ending in .sfs go in a folder on the working partition of your bootable usb stick.
Then the grub.cfg in your boot partition has to point to your working partition & subfolder.
Example - assuming initrd.gz & vmlinuz are in folder /boot on sdb1, & .sfs files are in folder /fossamid on sdb2, grub entry would look something like this:

menuentry "fossamid frugal" {
linux /boot/vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pdrv=sdb2 psubdir=fossamid pfix=fsck rootwait ro
initrd /boot/initrd.gz
}

If this is all done, with only the one usb stick plugged in, should boot.
Some installers put all the above files in one partition, in subfolders.
.
V2 iso contents:
.

fossamidiso.jpg (76.86 KiB) Viewed 1568 times

[mikeslr]

The first step is to deploy any Puppy to a USB-Key that remains write-able after deployment when the operating system doing the deployment=burning is a Mac.

If the USB-Key is not Write-able, you can't edit the boot-loader's argument which you may have to do to get a Puppy to boot and/or know where its components are.

If the USB-Key is not write-able, you can't save configurations, settings and user-installed programs to it. You can't locate SFSes, Portables or AppImages on it.

Until the 1st step is solved, we're running in circles.

What Mac computer? What Mac operating system?

How large a USB-Key? You can deploy several Puppys to a WRITEABLE USB-Key. But each needs it own folder and initially about 2 Gbs of Space.

@Clarity: Do you know anything about using Ventoy or SuperGrub2 under Macs? If so, could you provide a simple but detailed recipe as chopsticks is not an 'native Englsih' speaker many will have to use google-translate.

[chopsticks]

I mounted it by clicking on the iso in ROX-Filer (puppy's default filemanager).

I learned that you can mount the iso file by clicking on it in the file manager, so I checked to see what was missing for it to boot up.

I compared three things: the fossa9.5 iso, the fossa-mid iso, and a bootable USB where fossa9.5 was installed using Etcher. When comparing them, the grub.cfg seemed similar in both isos and didn't appear to be the issue.

Upon comparing the USB and iso, the only thing missing in the iso was the EFI folder. So, I saved the EFI folder from fossa9.5 first, then copied the fossa-mid iso to the USB. After that, I also copied the EFI, and it booted up.

This doesn't seem like the official method to me, but what is the correct way to add the EFI properly? Are there any issues if it boots using this method?

Before the change, the sentence was:

I realized I could mount by clicking on the iso file in the file manager and checked what was missing.
There are three: the fossa9.5 iso, the fossa-mid iso, and the bootable USB installed with fossa9.5 using etcher.

Comparing them, the grub.cfg seemed the same for both isos and there didn't appear to be any issues. When I compared the USB with the iso, the only difference was the EFI folder, which wasn't in the iso. So, I temporarily saved the EFI folder in fossa9.5 USB, copied the fossa-mid iso to the USB, and after copying the EFI, it booted.

This doesn't seem like the standard method. What is the correct way to add the EFI properly? Even if it boots using this method, could there be any issues?

[Clarity]

@Clarity: Do you know anything about using Ventoy or SuperGrub2 under Macs? If so, could you provide a simple ...

I know nothing about MACs to be helpful in the marriage between its EFI firmware, the GRUB2 boot manager and what the OS sees during its initialization.

... saved the EFI folder in fossa9.5 USB, copied the fossa-mid iso to the USB, and after copying the EFI, it booted. ...

As long as it works!

+1

[chopsticks]

I thought it would be easier to get guidance on this forum if I operate on Puppy since I can already boot up fossapup64 9.5. However, I'll go with MacOS if that's simpler.
I'm using a Macbook Pro 2015, the OS is Monterey 12.7, and the USB drive is 16GB.

What I've done on Puppy is to format the USB as fat32 instead of iso9660, opened the iso file and copied all its contents to the USB. I then copied only the EFI folder from another USB that I initially installed with Etcher to this USB. With these steps, I was able to create a writeable Mid USB drive that can boot and function.

[chopsticks]

P.S. I've found a way to slightly improve the translation performance, so I'll replace it with the retranslated version.

[chopsticks]

Good to hear there's no problem with booting. However, I've encountered a new issue after booting; the WLAN device is not working. This issue seems unrelated to booting, so I'm thinking of creating a new thread for it. Which forum do you think would be the most appropriate to post this in? Would it be okay to continue in the Beginners help section?

[mikeslr]

Now that you have a boot-able & writeable USB-Key, we can go forward and try to resolve the wifi issue.

In order to have wifi your operating system must be able to communicate with the wifi hardware of your computer. To do that it needs both the wifi drivers AND wifi firmware for that specific hardware. Getting firmware is usually simple.

A Puppys operating system consists of modules. When you mounted the ISO you saw one named fdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs. That module contains firmware. But at 24 Mbs it's a small sub-set of all possible firmware. You can find larger packages linked from this thread, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 777#p51777.

But before we do anything else, did you have wifi under the fossapup64_9.5 ISO you initially tried? If so, you can merely substitute its vmlinuz, zdrv.sfs and fdrv.sfs* for those of fossapup64-mid. All the updated applications ozwouth included are in his puppy_fossapup_9.5.sfs. You'll still have those if you change vmlinuz, fdrv.sfs and zdrv.sfs.

If that substitution doesn't work try downloading an fdrv. package, renamiing it fdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs and substituting the renamed package for your current version.

Drivers are more problematic. Drivers have to be compiled against each specific kernel. Puppy fans also publish 'Hugh Kernel' Packages. These consist of a vmlinuz, the actual kenel (you saw one in the unpacked ISO) and the package which for you fossapup was named zdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs. That zdrv.sfs contains drivers specifically compiled for that vmlinuz.

You'll find links to Hugh Kernel Packages here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewforum.php?f=65.

Once again things get complicated because you're using a Mac. The goal must be to find a kernel package that provides the drivers you need for its wifi, but also has the drivers needed for such other hardware as your keyboard, mouse, monitor, even motherboard.

The only alternative to 'finding' needed drivers is to compile them under the kernel you are to use.

For me it's 'pre-breakfast', and I never remember the terminal commands to determine what drivers a computer needs. So, I'll take a break and hope someone follow up.

-=-=-=-
Don't panic if the original Fossapup64 didn't have an fdrv.sfs. As their files don't conflict with each other, sometime a Dev combines both firmware and drivers in the zdrv.sfs.

.

[Marv]

Nice step-by-step, mikeslr. dmesg | grep -i network run in terminal should provide a starting point.

[mikeslr]

Thanks, marv. I've made a note of the terminal command to use and copied it into my folder of useful 'notes' pertaining bash commands. Hopefully, I'll remember (a) that I have it and (b) where I put it.

You know, I have a suspicion that somewhere radky's PupSys-Info --found on almost every Puppy's Menu>System submenu-- might provide the required information. But I've never been able to figure out which of PupSys-Info's components would show it.

@radky: If PupSys-Info doesn't provide that information, maybe include it if and when you update that application?

[bigpup]

@chopsticks

Just keep in mind that not all Puppy versions are the same and their are differences on what hardware they are trying to support.

The ones provided in the Mainline Puppy Linux Distros section of this forum, are the ones trying to support any hardware as much as possible.
Consider them the normal Puppy versions.

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Looking in the boot directory(folder) of fossamid iso.

It is missing the efi.img file.

I wonder if this is why you needed to add the efi directory that Etcher put on the USB.

Look in Fossapup64 9.5 iso boot directory for this efi.img file.

[ozsouth]

@chopsticks - when you copied the fossa9.5 efi folder to use for mid, you need to replace the initrd.gz & vmlinuz with the ones from fossamid, or you will have kernel issues.

[chopsticks]

did you have wifi under the fossapup64_9.5 ISO you initially tried?

Yes, the WiFi device was working with the initial ISO I tried. (However, it would produce an error when I tried to connect.)

[chopsticks]

When comparing the two ISOs, as bigpup mentioned, /boot/efi.img was not present in mid. It seems ydrv is only in mid. Otherwise, the file configurations were the same.

@chopsticks - when you copied the fossa9.5 efi folder to use for mid, you need to replace the initrd.gz & vmlinuz with the ones from fossamid, or you will have kernel issues.

When copying to the USB, I copied all the contents of the ISO, so I believe the only non-mid part in the USB would be the EFI folder.

[ozsouth]

@chopsticks - even though the same NAMED .sfs files are there, all the mid ones have different contents from fossa9.5. That is also why the initrd.gz & vmlinuz from fossa9.5 are not compatible with mid. The vmlinuz & zdrv must match the correct distro, or you will have kernel/driver issues.

LATER - new version 3 available - added efi.img & updated firefox-esr to latest. See: viewtopic.php?p=94956#p94956
This MAY solve your install issue.

[chopsticks]

LATER - new version 3 available - added efi.img & updated firefox-esr to latest. See: viewtopic.php?p=94956#p94956

Thank you. I was able to install and boot v3 using Etcher.

[chopsticks]

But before we do anything else, did you have wifi under the fossapup64_9.5 ISO you initially tried? If so, you can merely substitute its vmlinuz, zdrv.sfs and fdrv.sfs* for those of fossapup64-mid. All the updated applications ozwouth included are in his puppy_fossapup_9.5.sfs. You'll still have those if you change vmlinuz, fdrv.sfs and zdrv.sfs.

I replaced the fdrv, zdrv, and vmlinuz files on the USB where I installed mid with those from fossa9.5. As a result, the wlan device worked and I was able to connect to the internet.

Is this method considered stable and okay to use as is? Or is it just a troubleshooting step?

[rockedge]

Is this method considered stable and okay to use as is? Or is it just a troubleshooting step?

It is a stable method.

Falls into the category of kernel swapping which can mean sometimes the firmware and modules of of one kernel contain the components your system's hardware need and another newer one might not. So it is possible with Fossa64 to switch kernels until you find one that has the firmware drivers your machine needs.

[ozsouth]

@chopsticks - glad it worked. With v3 installed, you shouldn't have to change anything - all 5 sfs's have changes from original fossapup9.5. Mid's 5.10.182 kernel is 3 years newer than original, so lots of security fixes & I applied other security updates to Mid.
If you are missing a wireless driver, for an onboard adaptor (not usb dongle), run: lspci -nn | grep etwork
(that starts with lowercase L & has a pipe symbol in the middle - usually shift & \ key).
The output should help us find the needed driver. The only extra one in original fossapup9.5 is rtl8821ce. I made a .pet of that driver (must use 5.10.182 kernel version's .pet for fossamid). See: https://www.mediafire.com/file/xc07ajfi ... o.pet/file. (If that is what you need, after download, install it by clicking on it in ROX-Filer & must save on fossamid exit to retain it).
If that is not the issue, could be missing firmware, so in a terminal run: dmesg | grep irmware

[chopsticks]

I tried running both lspci and dmesg on the original Mid v3 (where WiFi is not connectable) and on the one where I replaced the three files with fossa9.5 (where WiFi is connectable).

Mid only:

root# lspci -nn | grep etwork
03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43602 802.11ac Wireless LAN SoC [14e4:43ba] (rev 01)
root# dmesg | grep irmware
[ 0.106569] Spectre V2 : Enabling Restricted Speculation for firmware calls
[ 1.363858] ACPI: [Firmware Bug]: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored
[ 1.403020] acpi PNP0A08:00: [Firmware Info]: MMCONFIG for domain 0000 [bus 00-9b] only partially covers this bridge
[ 19.002040] brcmfmac 0000:03:00.0: Direct firmware load for brcm/brcmfmac43602-pcie.bin failed with error -2

fossa9.5 replacement:

root# lspci -nn | grep etwork
03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43602 802.11ac Wireless LAN SoC [14e4:43ba] (rev 01)
root# dmesg | grep irmware
0.108242] Spectre V2 : Enabling Restricted Speculation for firmware calls
0.734661] ACPI: [Firmware Bug]: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored
0.740561] acpi PNP0A08:00: [Firmware Info]: MMCONFIG for domain 0000 [bus 00-9b] only partially covers this bridge
24.997573] brcmfmac 0000:03:00.0: Direct firmware load for brcm/brcmfmac43602-pcie.Apple Inc.-MacBookPro11,4.txt failed with error -2
24.997591] brcmfmac 0000:03:00.0: Direct firmware load for brcm/brcmfmac43602-pcie.txt failed with error -2
25.509217] brcmfmac: brcmf_c_preinit_dcmds: Firmware: BCM43602/1 wl0: Nov 10 2015 06:38:10 version 7.35.177.61 (r599657) FWID 01-e6002a8c

Comparing them, the lspci outputs seem to be the same. Does this mean that the device driver is being loaded correctly?
The dmesg outputs are different, so there could be an issue with the firmware.

[ozsouth]

@chopsticks - mid is missing a firmware file. The .pet below supplies that. After download, click on it in ROX-Filer (filemanager) to install it. Then, after a few seconds you should be able to run connection program successfully. Note you will have to save on exit from fossamid to retain the file. No other drivers should be needed.

Alternatively, you could download an fdrv with all brcm firmware & swap it for current mid's fdrv. Adds 8mb.
That would mean you wouldn't have to save on exiting fossamid.
It is here (31.5mb): https://www.mediafire.com/file/hq16gpag ... 5.sfs/file
.