KLV-Spectr-RT with full real-time kernel 6.1.38-rt13c

[rockedge]

"You can not run OctoXbps with administrator's credentials."

Is there an easy solution for this? Should it be run as spot?

This method will preserve the modified .desktop file during and after any updates of OctoXBPS. This trick is good for any modified .desktop files since /root/.local/share/applications takes precedent.

Create the directory: /root/.local/share/applications
Copy /usr/share/applications/octoxbps.desktop to /root/.local/share/applications/octoxbps.desktop
Copy /usr/share/applications/octoxbps-notifier.desktop to /root/.local/share/applications/octoxbps-notifier.desktop

Modify in /root/.local/share/octoxbps.desktop:

Code: Select all

Exec=/usr/bin/octoxbps

to:

Code: Select all

Exec=run-as-spot /usr/bin/octoxbps

and do the same for /root/.local/share/octoxbps-notifier.desktop

[Sofiya]

even easier in the terminal

Code: Select all

# add run-as-spot to .desktop files
cd /usr/share/applications
sed -i 's/^Exec=/&run-as-spot /' octoxbps.desktop
sed -i 's/^Exec=/&run-as-spot /' octoxbps-notifier.desktop

[rockedge]

@Sofiya something is broken, seems a theme is missing?

Code: Select all

bash-5.2# dunst
WARNING: Could not find theme Win11
CRITICAL: [dbus_cb_name_lost:1152] Cannot acquire 'org.freedesktop.Notifications': Name is acquired by 'dunst' with PID '947' 

[Sofiya]

@Sofiya something is broken, seems a theme is missing?

Code: Select all

bash-5.2# dunst
WARNING: Could not find theme Win11
CRITICAL: [dbus_cb_name_lost:1152] Cannot acquire 'org.freedesktop.Notifications': Name is acquired by 'dunst' with PID '947' 

--------------------------------------

Code: Select all

xbps-install -Su dunst

/usr/share/icons https://gitlab.com/sofija.p2018/kla-ot2 ... line=false
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
or replace with "Adwaita" on line 204 in /root/.config/dunst/dunstrc .
but Adwaita doesn't have half of the icons to display in the notification

[rockedge]

New uploaded version of KLV-Spectr-RT is ready for test drives. If stable we can start to construct the corresponding PLUG file to build it.

The ISO is for testing purposes and for a quick frugal setup to get started. Perhaps a wrapper script to assemble a working KLV-Spectr-RT or the beta3 which is using the Void Linux kernel 6.5.7_1.

[wiak]

I do hope Spectre gets more active development again so can also move towards supporting Wayland. It seems to be a nice piece of C code so would be a pity if that important characteristic wasn't further taken advantage of. However, be several years I feel before X hardly used any more so not really a concern of today - all other new technologies apply whether using X or Wayland pretty much anyway, and X still has advantages as Wayland positions itself to overcome its non-implemented support bits and pieces.

I won't make any comment regarding which I find has nicest functionality and efficient ease-of-use convenience. My feeling is that pretty much any tiling manager can be set up to provide similar efficient use-case functionality. I think most all are potentially very very similar in efficient resource usage (that's how I find it on measurement by the way), where it all comes down more to how your set them up and what bells and whistles you add; very efficient/economical and nice to use anyway - doesn't take long at all I find to master main key combinations. I can't help but feel, for me at least, tiling window managers are near perfect to use in practice - at first they don't feel like that and seem like a bit of a blank screen, but wow, once you get a hang of tiling in conjunction with workspace handling you wonder why you bothered with gui-wizard-driven stacking/floating window managers (and especially when you can also float windows in most tiling window managers - not that I feel much need to usually).

For me, polish, in terms of making sure distro ends up having all the facilities/apps/functionality I want for the way I use my computer (rather than shine and sparkly visual effects) is what is important. That takes work. Nothing against the prettying up either of course, except on older lower resourced machines where I want to use every CPU cycle most productively so they appear just as fast and comfortable to use as my most powerful machine.

It certainly takes time to add in all the expected/wanted overall functionity, including printing, bluetooth, network connectivity matters and so on, and I tend to be a bit lazy with these finishing touches, but once I settle on a distro that always becomes my main objective. Boot matters/techniques are much more of a lower priority side matter to me - I already have preferred main boot mechanisms that work perfectly for my own needs, but of course I do my best longer term to support alternatives (which often involve initrd code support so not work to take on lightly - that being the FR heart I have to take care not to break what works so well).

Best thing for me about KL/FR is that it makes building complex variant distros really pretty simple with no loss of power or flexibility. I never imagined it would work so well despite my best intentions, and importantly, doesn't need much support from me at all really (very little maintenance of the simple core build scripts required in practice). That means that it establishes itself as a ready-to-use, relatively straightforward build system that, amazingly really, produces great products and encourages participation from anyone interested (who don't need much dev experience and plenty helping hands anyway to explain the mechanisms and provide support code and utilities). That's KL.

It is also obvious to me that those who start using/creating with KL/FR quickly gain experience and skill, which is probably the most inspiring result.

[wiak]

I'm still not that familiar with any of the tiling WM's navigation completely yet.

It's interesting (and useful to me) that Spectre is:

Restartable without losing state

Any idea how to do that (toggle the ability on and off?).

I don't know which (presumably some?) of the other tiling wm/compositors have that ability.

[geo_c]

I think most all are potentially very very similar in efficient resource usage (that's how I find it on measurement by the way), where it all comes down more to how your set them up and what bells and whistles you add; very efficient/economical and nice to use anyway - doesn't take long at all I find to master main key combinations. I can't help but feel, for me at least, tiling window managers are near perfect to use in practice - at first they don't feel like that and seem like a bit of a blank screen, but wow, once you get a hang of tiling in conjunction with workspace handling you wonder why you bothered with gui-wizard-driven stacking/floating window managers (and especially when you can also float windows in most tiling window managers - not that I feel much need to usually).

This is where I'm at with daily work now. Firing up Xfce, or jwm, or any of those simply seems more cumbersome. Sure the puppyforum has provided us with a certain amount of tiling function (like Super+left/right/up/down in KLV or F96), which is greatly appreciated, but the stack/float managers always take a good bit of mouse manipulation to get the workspace usable. Once a good tiling setup is learned, there's no comparison.

For me, polish, in terms of making sure distro ends up having all the facilities/apps/functionality I want for the way I use my computer (rather than shine and sparkly visual effects) is what is important. That takes work. Nothing against the prettying up either of course, except on older lower resourced machines where I want to use every CPU cycle most productively so they appear just as fast and comfortable to use as my most powerful machine.

And this is where Spectr is particularly nice. It seems to be the thinnest veil over the top of the applications. Like you said, it can be restarted without the state being changed, and it does so instantly. The config is simple, can be edited on the fly and restarted.

I've been bouncing around Bspwm, Awesome, and Spectr, and I'm sure with a good bit of tweaking, particularly in keybindings for the workspace, Bspwm and Awesome would be equally as versatile, but those configurations are much more complicated to setup. Spectr has just enough functions for manipulating workspaces and windows OOTB, which is why a simpleton like me could get a handle on the keybindings that I needed and organize them.

What is particularly amazing about this Spectr version is that still retains the lightweight aspects of the spectrwm but has the look and feel of a polished desktop, rather than a sparse command line shell, which is an amazing bit of work by @Sofiya.

It certainly takes time to add in all the expected/wanted overall functionity, including printing, bluetooth, network connectivity matters and so on, and I tend to be a bit lazy with these finishing touches, but once I settle on a distro that always becomes my main objective...

Best thing for me about KL/FR is that it makes building complex variant distros really pretty simple with no loss of power or flexibility. I never imagined it would work so well despite my best intentions, and importantly, doesn't need much support from me at all really (very little maintenance of the simple core build scripts required in practice). That means that it establishes itself as a ready-to-use, relatively straightforward build system that, amazingly really, produces great products and encourages participation from anyone interested (who don't need much dev experience and plenty helping hands anyway to explain the mechanisms and provide support code and utilities). That's KL.

It is also obvious to me that those who start using/creating with KL/FR quickly gain experience and skill, which is probably the most inspiring result.

I've certainly learned a huge amount of distro building skills working in the FR format, though without the experienced guys like you, @rockedge, @Sofiya, and @fredx181 around to configure the hard stuff (cups, sensors, pulse/pipewire, etc...), I'd still be lost.

[geo_c]

I mounted and copied the new ISO and took a look at the new spectrwm.conf, but I haven't booted it up yet, I'm pressed for time today.

I took a look at the files to check out the keybindings, and it looks like they are all the same except adding MOD+z to launch the splash. CORRECTION: Actually, I have MOD+ALT+p listed for opening pavucontrol, and that doesn't seem to be in the spectrwm.conf, just add:

Code: Select all

 program[pavucontrol]	  = pavucontrol
 bind[pavucontrol]             = MOD+Shift+p
 

Also, I had the idea to use the colors present in the polybar in the splash to give the look continuity, so here are 4 new splashes with MOD+z inserted, as MOD+ALT+k was still listed as reopening the splash while apparently not configured in spectrwm.

KEYS-v5.tar.gz

(5.19 KiB) Downloaded 61 times

[wiak]

I mounted and copied the new ISO and took a look at the new spectrwm.conf, but I haven't booted it up yet, I'm pressed for time today.

I took a look at the files to check out the keybindings, and it looks like they are all the same except adding MOD+z to launch the splash.

Also, I had the idea to use the colors present in the polybar in the splash to give the look continuity, so here are 4 new splashes with MOD+z inserted, as MOD+ALT+k was still listed as reopening the splash while apparently not configured in spectrwm.

KEYS-v5.tar.gz

I presume, on your system, you have tested all the declared keybind combinations work?
If not, which ones do you find don't?

[geo_c]

I presume, on your system, you have tested all the declared keybind combinations work?
If not, which ones do you find don't?

No, because I haven't booted up, but I looked at the list in spectrwm conf,

Also see above: viewtopic.php?p=101398#p101398

as I forgot to mention the one keybinding I saw missing.

EDIT the pavucontrol can be opened by right click the volume icon in polybar, but I like having the keybinding

[wiak]

EDIT the pavucontrol can be opened by right click the volume icon in polybar, but I like having the keybinding

Yes, my feeling is that with tiling managers it is always good to have a keybinding even if alternative mouse click method available; good to keep it possible to do most everything with keyboard only even if some think that is old-fashioned (it isn't; it's efficient and faster, but I find you can do a lot with the mouse too if you prefer that, but using a mouse feels like more effort than useful much of the time...).

Personally, I certainly feel that tiling managers are breathing a lot of fresh air into my own computer usage habits, and definitely making them more efficient. I can't help but wonder why I have avoided them in the past - probably simply didn't take the time to become familiar with their operation. They are very good indeed. I imagine it will be tricky to convince some of this forum's members to give them a try... some prefer to never experiment beyond JWM with Rox pinboard, which is fine and pretty good and efficient, but tiling does seem better as desktop management approach to me at least.

[rockedge]

@wiak same here. I had this moment remembering a program from 1988 that provided an add-on layer to DOS that provided virtual desktops that could be flipped through with with keyboard key combinations. Since KLV-Airedale has the window tiling shortcuts configured in the XFCE4 desktop key bindings I have been using the feature more and more. I like xfce4 on KLV-Airedale and it offers lots of good stacking/floating windows features and makes working with multiple monitors easy to set up. The combination of nostalgia and using tiling shortcuts in XFCE4 led me to think how easy it is to take the PLUG that makes close to a KLV-Airedale and replace the xfce4 desktop installation with a different WM. And I totally agree, using tiling is much much more the way I work and play around on a computer I found out again. I do like KLV xfce4 variants a lot, and having some basic tiling in those is of great use, but the super efficiency and lightning responsiveness and the workflow concept are leading to me using KLV-Spectr-RT and beta3 both testing on bare metal and QEMU/VirtualBox machines.

Tiling window manager is such a good match for KLV systems. I am really enjoying the new found enthusiasm to actually using some programs instead of just checking if they run.

@dimkr's DARLS operating systems are similar in performance to KLV-Spectr-beta3 and offers a tiling WM as well.

After some research and looking for ease of configuration as a factor Spectrwm seemed a good place to start and is an easy replacement to install using the PLUG.

Plus as @geo_c points out, the ability to change a configuration and restart Spectrwm that maintains the state from the point of restart, was a plus. Plain text configuration file also weighed in. The current key bindings seem to work...once I figured out what the binding is actually doing

@Sofiya did some magic and made it all look sharp and useful with flare of minimalist styling. Really cool to use.

[geo_c]

I'm posting from the from the latest Spectr now.

I notice that whereas before I had MOD+D as opening the default Spectr dmenu, and MOD+Shift+D opening the Rofi menu, those have been switched, which seems like a good idea. But I need to update the splash screen now.

I'll check all the keybindings and see what else might be different from the splash document, and we could always add a few more either to open commonly used applications, or perhaps execute some of the Spectr commands that aren't currently bound to any keys.

[geo_c]

Personally, I certainly feel that tiling managers are breathing a lot of fresh air into my own computer usage habits, and definitely making them more efficient. I can't help but wonder why I have avoided them in the past - probably simply didn't take the time to become familiar with their operation. They are very good indeed. I imagine it will be tricky to convince some of this forum's members to give them a try... some prefer to never experiment beyond JWM with Rox pinboard, which is fine and pretty good and efficient, but tiling does seem better as desktop management approach to me at least.

Honestly, when I started to get a feel for Spectr back when @rockedge first produced it, I got that same feeling I had when I tried my first puppy 4.3.1 way back in the day. A feeling of getting back to the simplicity and power of the computer that was being lost in the constant bling and bloat being inserted into WinXP and then Win7.

[geo_c]

Here are the keys that are not equivalent to the splash document:

Code: Select all

Reopen This Window      = MOD+ALT+K             (Now MOD+z)
application launcher      = MOD+Shift+d            (Okay, but opens stock dmenu)
pulse volume control     = MOD+Shift+p            (does nothing)

minimize                        = MOD+Alt+i               (does nothing)
restore                           = MOD+Shift+i            (does nothing)
move last to master      = MOD+period              (does nothing)
move last to stack         = MOD+comma           (does nothing)
split prev from last        =  MOD+Shift+period  (does notthing) 
return prev from split    = MOD+Shift+comma  (does nothing)

And I notice there are few more bindings in the Newest Version that aren't reflected in the splash.

Also I notice @Sofiya has a build script up for Spectr-CE1, which I downloaded,

So at this point I'll rest and decide which way to go next. I'm testing here in a PFI configuration, but maybe I should simply start with the CE1 build script and build a new one.

[wiak]

I'm actually having regular freeze problems with KLV-Spectr (though remember I am using the kernel/modules from KLV-Swayland since the RT one wouldn't boot Spectr for me at all).

Also, I note there are icons for the likes of Firefox up the top bar, which look great, but I click on them (they underlined) but can't get Firefox or any of the others to launch. How do you use them?

[geo_c]

I'm actually having regular freeze problems with KLV-Spectr (though remember I am using the kernel/modules from KLV-Swayland since the RT one wouldn't boot Spectr for me at all).

Also, I note there are icons for the likes of Firefox up the top bar, which look great, but I click on them (they underlined) but can't get Firefox or any of the others to launch. How do you use them?

Those icons in the bar are just workspace identifiers. If you'd rather have numbers for workspaces thosse can be changed in the spectrwm.conf.

Applications are launched by the rofi menu or dmenu, MOD+D for rofi, MOD+Shift+D for dmenu.

[wiak]

I'm actually having regular freeze problems with KLV-Spectr (though remember I am using the kernel/modules from KLV-Swayland since the RT one wouldn't boot Spectr for me at all).

Also, I note there are icons for the likes of Firefox up the top bar, which look great, but I click on them (they underlined) but can't get Firefox or any of the others to launch. How do you use them?

Those icons in the bar are just workspace identifiers. If you'd rather have numbers for workspaces thosse can be changed in the spectrwm.conf.

Ah, okay, that makes sense. I don't know why I didn't think of that considering I have pretty much the same idea in waybar in my KLV-Swayland... oops.

[geo_c]

I'm actually having regular freeze problems with KLV-Spectr (though remember I am using the kernel/modules from KLV-Swayland since the RT one wouldn't boot Spectr for me at all).

Also, I note there are icons for the likes of Firefox up the top bar, which look great, but I click on them (they underlined) but can't get Firefox or any of the others to launch. How do you use them?

Those icons in the bar are just workspace identifiers. If you'd rather have numbers for workspaces thosse can be changed in the spectrwm.conf.

Ah, okay, that makes sense. I don't know why I didn't think of that considering I have pretty much the same idea in waybar in my KLV-Swayland... oops.

That's the kind of thing that makes me think it would be a good idea to have a welcome document or splash for these kinds of OS's, because it takes some time to become acclamated to the environment.

I've run into something interesting when I put two splashes in Startup. I often get one of the splashes assuming the font properties of the other splash. Seems to be a timing thing where the gtkdialog-splash program is running simultaneously or something.

[rockedge]

I've run into something interesting when I put two splashes in Startup.

that is interesting! I'll have to try that out.

I'm testing here in a PFI configuration, but maybe I should simply start with the CE1 build script and build a new one.

I've built an example last night. Stick to your PFI version for now. The script is producing a nice system but some things need to be checked out

I'm actually having regular freeze problems with KLV-Spectr (though remember I am using the kernel/modules from KLV-Swayland since the RT one wouldn't boot Spectr for me at all).

you could try the Void Linux kernel from beta3

[geo_c]

I'm actually having regular freeze problems with KLV-Spectr (though remember I am using the kernel/modules from KLV-Swayland since the RT one wouldn't boot Spectr for me at all).

you could try the Void Linux kernel from beta3

I wonder what the deal with the RT kernel is, because that 6.1.38 RT kernel boots and plays well with 4 different laptops of mine from different years, 15-3 years old, HP and Dell.

[rockedge]

I wonder what the deal with the RT kernel is, because that 6.1.38 RT kernel boots and plays well with 4 different laptops of mine from different years, 15-3 years old, HP and Dell.

Same for me. On 5 different machines, 2 laptops and 3 desktops, KLV-Airedale-RT and KLV-Spectr-RT run really well. I even have the Puppy Linux version of 6.1.38-rt13 going in Bionic64-8 and F96-CE_4 which will boot on QEMU/VirtualBox machines as well as frugal on HDD, USB or CD-ROM

Some more work getting the /boot directory aligned with the KLV-Airedale /boot and it's ability to boot with Ventoy is now on the to-do list and is in progress.

[Sofiya]

KLV-Spectr-RT3 -test
we can continue to work

[Sofiya]

You can also add so that these applications do not open in full screen

Floating or not in .spectrwm.conf

Code: Select all

 quirk[Nsxiv:nsxiv]                          = FLOAT
 quirk[Lxtask]                               = FLOAT 
 quirk[Nitrogen]                             = FLOAT
 quirk[Galculator]                           = FLOAT
 quirk[Arandr]                               = FLOAT
 quirk[Nm-connection-editor]                 = FLOAT

[Sofiya]

[geo_c]

You can also add so that these applications do not open in full screen

Floating or not in .spectrwm.conf

Yes, and I was just working on the config file and reworking some keybindings, taking out unnecessary second control keys and so forth. It's coming along.

But I was trying to use the quirk line to open one of my gtkdialog scripts named mclock in floating position. And I can't get it to work.

It's a bash script that looks like this and creates a gtkdialog window with a formatted clock in it. I adapted it from a script that @MochiMoppel wrote. It's the script I was trying to adapt into a keybinding splash screen before you told me about mksplash.

NEVERMIND! I got it.

I read the Spectrwm config manual and queried the window_class using:

Code: Select all

xprop | grep -E "^(WM_CLASS|_NET_WM_NAME|WM_NAME)"

So I added the mclock to the spectrwm config and made it float with this, but I guess this will float all gtkdialog windows, which is probably what I want:

Code: Select all

 program[mclock]		  = /root/my-applications/bin/mclock
 bind[mclock]			  = MOD+MOD1+c 
 quirk[Gtkdialog:gtkdialog]      = FLOAT

[geo_c]

Have you ever been working in one of your systems and wondered what exact iteration of the OS you booted into? I do that all the time, so I made a splash screen to tell me, it's in all my puppies and KL's.

I'm working in my developed 4.4 Spectr right now and cleaning up keybindings even more, and so I saw how @rockedge put the splash script in /root/.config/spectrwm/scripts in the latest iso, and I decided to do that with this install. Along with that I also made a splash for the version of Spectr and assigned it to keybinding: MOD+v

So now I type the version name in the version splash script, and press MOD+v anytme it's late at night and I'm getting buggy.

[fredx181]

I've run into something interesting when I put two splashes in Startup. I often get one of the splashes assuming the font properties of the other splash. Seems to be a timing thing where the gtkdialog-splash program is running simultaneously or something.

Good catch. I tested on KLV-Airedale and can confirm it. I'd say that's a bug. Strange though that if I run the scripts manually quickly after each other it's ok.

Perhaps it has to do with a timing issue, anyway, thought it would be best if every splash run has it's own dedicated gtk theme by adding RANDOM number.
So made some small changes in the gtkdialog-splash script that should fix it, attached below:

gtkdialog-splash.gz

Extract and replace in /usr/local/bin (NOT fake .gz extension)

(6.25 KiB) Downloaded 77 times

Something like this will be in /tmp then after running 4 splashes from Startup (all these folders contain gtk.css theme file):

Screenshot(1).png (30.7 KiB) Viewed 5400 times

[stemsee]

Boots to desktop on my chromebook and then I don't know how to get a terminal or anything else! BTW what is the 'MOD' key?

Airedale RT works as expected.