Laptop won't boot some Linuxes from external drive (abandoned)

[stevie pup]

Ok, I've put this in Off-Topic as I think it's a laptop problem rather than a Puppy issue, although I'm not 100% sure. In fact my head is spinning at the moment. Anyway, I'll start at the beginning.

I have two portable hard drives, one with Fossa95 frugally installed and the other with VanillaDPup, also frugally installed. I've had both for some time and both have always worked perfectly well and without issue. This morning I plugged Vanilla into a laptop that I don't often use, and it wouldn't boot. After a significant delay it eventually got as far as "Probing EDD", then just flashing cursor. I left it for 5 or 6 minutes then gave up and pressed the power button to kill it.

So I then plugged in Fossa to same laptop, and that still booted ok. The Linux distro that's installed on this laptop also still boots ok, as have other distros in the past, with one exception.

Some time ago I installed antiX Linux on this laptop, and that wouldn't boot. The boot process started, then I just got a black screen with flashing cursor. I then used same USB stick and installed antiX on a little Netbook I have, and it booted fine, and everything worked.

So it's almost as though out of all the thousands of Linux distros there are just two that this laptop doesn't like for some mysterious reason, VanillaDPup and antiX.

If anyone out there has any idea what on earth could be going on, I would love to hear it.

Thanks

[fredx181]

After a significant delay it eventually got as far as "Probing EDD", then just flashing cursor. I left it for 5 or 6 minutes then gave up and pressed the power button to kill it.

Not that I know what could be the cause, but I've had that "Probing EDD" message too sometimes and refusing to boot, but it helped adding to the kernel boot line: edd=off

[bigpup]

Need specific make and model of the laptop???

But this is true about Puppy Linux.

No one Puppy version will work on all possible computers.
That is why there is always several Puppy versions to try.

[dimkr]

So it's almost as though out of all the thousands of Linux distros there are just two that this laptop doesn't like for some mysterious reason, VanillaDPup and antiX.

Both use the Debian kernel (or something very close), so this could be a bug inherited from Debian.

[stevie pup]

Not that I know what could be the cause, but I've had that "Probing EDD" message too sometimes and refusing to boot, but it helped adding to the kernel boot line: edd=off

Thank you for the suggestion, but how (or where) do I do that? Never needed to do it before.

@bigpup The laptop is an Acer 5735z, 2Ghz dual core processor and 4Gb RAM. I don't really use it much, just playing around and trying out other Linux distros usually.

Both use the Debian kernel (or something very close), so this could be a bug inherited from Debian.

I suspect that's more coincidence than anything else. This laptop currently has Devuan installed on it, and in the past has had MX, Sparky and other Debian based distros, all of which have booted up and functioned without any problems.

This issue isn't really a big deal in a lot of ways. After all, if I really want to use VanillaDPup for anything I can just plug the drive into a different laptop and it boots fine. I just find it so damn irritating when something leaves me baffled.

[dimkr]

I suspect that's more coincidence than anything else.

Are you sure that all the Debian-based distros that do work are based on the same Debian version as those that don't?

If Vanilla Dpup 9.3.x works but 10.0.x doesn't, maybe there's a bug in Debian 12 that doesn't affect Debian 11, making the problem easier to isolate.

[fredx181]

Not that I know what could be the cause, but I've had that "Probing EDD" message too sometimes and refusing to boot, but it helped adding to the kernel boot line: edd=off

Thank you for the suggestion, but how (or where) do I do that? Never needed to do it before.

For a frugal install on the line where the boot options are specified, for example my case: in grub.cfg I have this (and the files in folder "vanilla")
linux /vanilla/vmlinuz pfix=nocopy,fsck pmedia=ataflash psubdir=vanilla
Adding edd=off I would make it this:
linux /vanilla/vmlinuz pfix=nocopy,fsck pmedia=ataflash psubdir=vanilla edd=off
(or if you use grub4dos, in menu.lst: kernel /vanilla/vmlinuz pfix=nocopy,fsck pmedia=ataflash psubdir=vanilla edd=off)
edit: for syslinux bootloader it's a bit different, add it on the line where the initrd is loaded.

[mouldy]

Its true, not all linux will boot on all computers, not all Puppies will boot on all computers. I have a selection, just keep trying until find one or more that work. Oh and for external, its usually best to use either high quality thumb drive or an SSD with usb adapter/case/whatever. Older full mechanical hard drives rarely work well with typical SATA to usb adapter, even using both usb plugs, one to supplement power. If you really need to do old mechanical hard drive with usb, you need one of the adapters that has its own power supply you plug into an outlet.

Besides Puppy/Dogs/Easy, my favorite by far is MX. But also rather like the "unofficial" LXDE or XFCE spins of Fedora. Truly dislike any distribution that tries to force feed me a Gnome.

Will mention that Knoppix maybe one of most universal booting linux. I have it installed to a SSD and it will boot on just about anything via usb.

Also mention different linux have strengths and weakness, all have their little glitches. Just dont have to continually fight them like one does with windows trying to play Mata Hari.

[bigpup]

stevie pup,

Copy and post the grub.cfg file contents from the USB boot loader.

Maybe an edit of the entry can help.

[stevie pup]

Are you sure that all the Debian-based distros that do work are based on the same Debian version as those that don't?
If Vanilla Dpup 9.3.x works but 10.0.x doesn't, maybe there's a bug in Debian 12 that doesn't affect Debian 11, making the problem easier to isolate.

I am using Vanilla 9.3. I did try 10.0 at one point just to see if it made any difference, and it didn't. I've had other Linux distros based on Debian 10, 11 and 12, and all have been fine (except antiX). Also had Manjaro on it at one point, and that didn't cause problems either.

(or if you use grub4dos, in menu.lst: kernel /vanilla/vmlinuz pfix=nocopy,fsck pmedia=ataflash psubdir=vanilla edd=off)

Yes I use grub4dos so I did that, unfortunately it didn't make any difference.

Oh and for external, its usually best to use either high quality thumb drive or an SSD with usb adapter/case/whatever. Older full mechanical hard drives rarely work well with typical SATA to usb adapter

Besides Puppy/Dogs/Easy, my favorite by far is MX.

I have Fossa 9.5 on a mechanical hard drive, never been a problem. MX is also my favourite and is what I use on my most powerful laptop. Usually use Puppies on my less powerful machines.

Copy and post the grub.cfg file contents from the USB boot loader.
Maybe an edit of the entry can help.

How do I do that? No rush for a response, probably be next weekend until I devote any more time to this.

[stevie pup]

Some further info. I decided to give an older Puppy a spin, just to see what it was like and if it would shed any light on the issue. Rummaged around in my box of USB sticks and found I had still got one with DPup Stretch on it, so booted that.

As the boot process started the line that starts "Linux-bzimage" appeared almost straight away. Then there was a significant delay until the next line, "Linux-initrd" appeared. I only got this delay on the "troublesome" laptop, there was no delay on the other laptop. Stretch did boot eventually, but certainly took it's time about it.

Does that give any hints as to where the problem might lie?

[bigpup]

Copy and post the grub.cfg file contents from the USB boot loader.
Maybe an edit of the entry can help.

How do I do that? No rush for a response, probably be next weekend until I devote any more time to this.

Look on the USB stick for the file grub.cfg

Open it in a text editor program that will show all the entries in the file.

Copy what is in it.

past this into a post you make in this topic.

If you put it in code brackets [cod][/code] it will look like this example pasted in a post.

Example:

Code: Select all

set default=0
set timeout=5

set menu_color_normal='yellow/blue'
set menu_color_highlight='black/cyan'

if [ $grub_platform = 'efi' ]; then
  loadfont /boot/grub/fonts/DejaVuSansMono18.pf2
  set gfxmode=auto
  terminal_output gfxterm
fi

menuentry "Puppy dpup 10.0.2" {
  insmod ext2
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root b0f092c5-6a1c-4e04-b9d8-ddbeb91d4ab7
  echo "Loading vmlinuz"
  linux /bookworm10.0.2/vmlinuz pmedia=usbhd pdrv=b0f092c5-6a1c-4e04-b9d8-ddbeb91d4ab7 psubdir=/bookworm10.0.2 pfix=fsck,fsckp,trim TZ=EST5EDT,M3.2.0,M11.1.0
  if [ -e /bookworm10.0.2/local-initrd.gz ]; then
    set local_rd=/bookworm10.0.2/local-initrd.gz
  else
    set local_rd=
  fi
  if [ -e /bookworm10.0.2/ucode.cpio ]; then
    set ucode_rd=/bookworm10.0.2/ucode.cpio
    echo "Loading ucode.cpio and initrd.gz"
  else
    set ucode_rd=
    echo "Loading initrd.gz"
  fi
  initrd $ucode_rd /bookworm10.0.2/initrd.gz $local_rd
}
menuentry "Puppy fossapup64 9.6" {
  insmod ext2
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root b0f092c5-6a1c-4e04-b9d8-ddbeb91d4ab7
  echo "Loading vmlinuz"
  linux /F96CE4/vmlinuz pmedia=usbhd pdrv=b0f092c5-6a1c-4e04-b9d8-ddbeb91d4ab7 psubdir=/F96CE4 pfix=fsck,fsckp,trim TZ=EST5EDT,M3.2.0,M11.1.0
  if [ -e /F96CE4/local-initrd.gz ]; then
    set local_rd=/F96CE4/local-initrd.gz
  else
    set local_rd=
  fi
  if [ -e /F96CE4/ucode.cpio ]; then
    set ucode_rd=/F96CE4/ucode.cpio
    echo "Loading ucode.cpio and initrd.gz"
  else
    set ucode_rd=
    echo "Loading initrd.gz"
  fi
  initrd $ucode_rd /F96CE4/initrd.gz $local_rd
}
menuentry "Puppy s15pup32 22.12" {
  insmod ext2
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root b0f092c5-6a1c-4e04-b9d8-ddbeb91d4ab7
  echo "Loading vmlinuz"
  linux /s15pup32/vmlinuz pmedia=usbhd pdrv=b0f092c5-6a1c-4e04-b9d8-ddbeb91d4ab7 psubdir=/s15pup32 pfix=fsck,fsckp,trim TZ=EST5EDT,M3.2.0,M11.1.0
  if [ -e /s15pup32/local-initrd.gz ]; then
    set local_rd=/s15pup32/local-initrd.gz
  else
    set local_rd=
  fi
  if [ -e /s15pup32/ucode.cpio ]; then
    set ucode_rd=/s15pup32/ucode.cpio
    echo "Loading ucode.cpio and initrd.gz"
  else
    set ucode_rd=
    echo "Loading initrd.gz"
  fi
  initrd $ucode_rd /s15pup32/initrd.gz $local_rd
}
menuentry "Puppy slacko64 8.2.1" {
  insmod ext2
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root b0f092c5-6a1c-4e04-b9d8-ddbeb91d4ab7
  echo "Loading vmlinuz"
  linux /slacko64821/vmlinuz pmedia=usbhd pdrv=b0f092c5-6a1c-4e04-b9d8-ddbeb91d4ab7 psubdir=/slacko64821 pfix=fsck,fsckp,trim TZ=EST5EDT,M3.2.0,M11.1.0
  if [ -e /slacko64821/local-initrd.gz ]; then
    set local_rd=/slacko64821/local-initrd.gz
  else
    set local_rd=
  fi
  if [ -e /slacko64821/ucode.cpio ]; then
    set ucode_rd=/slacko64821/ucode.cpio
    echo "Loading ucode.cpio and initrd.gz"
  else
    set ucode_rd=
    echo "Loading initrd.gz"
  fi
  initrd $ucode_rd /slacko64821/initrd.gz $local_rd

[stevie pup]

Haven't got round to doing the grub.config thing yet, but I have found something else. Had the chance to try VanillaDPup in a 3rd laptop, and also tried booting it in my little netbook. In both cases it booted fine with no delays. So out of 4 machines only one has an issue with Vanilla.

I also fished out another USB stick, which had Sparky linux on it. It booted, but took nearly twice as long as it does on the other laptop.

Doesn't all this confirm my original thoughts that this is a laptop issue rather than a Puppy (or Linux) problem?

[greengeek]

See if you can identify what graphics card or chipset each laptop has. (nvidia? radeon? etc)

[bigpup]

The Linux kernel that is used in all Linux OS's, really determines what hardware is supported.

The Linux kernel is constantly adding and dropping support for hardware, with each new series, and version in that specific series.

Also, when compiling the kernel, there are hundreds of operational config settings, that could be selected.

The kernel config used in Puppy versions, tries to be settings enabled that are generally needed and used, but with so many, it is not perfect science!

Kernel config settings, is a black art, that only a very few, really totally understand!

Example:
Linux kernel 4 series, is not going to have hardware drivers and settings for very new hardware. How could it. The hardware did not even exist, when the kernel was developed.

Linux kernel series 6, is not going to have hardware drivers and settings for very, very old hardware. More support is for very, very new hardware.
What old hardware support is deleted, is kind of a constant battle, and up to whoever is developing the kernel series.

I can tell you, that changing the kernel being used in a Puppy version, can affect the hardware supported by that Puppy version.

[rockedge]

I can tell you, that changing the kernel being used in a Puppy version, can affect the hardware supported by that Puppy version.

Agreed.

[stevie pup]

Decided to give Radky's BusterPup a spin (always liked Buster) and see what happened. So usual procedure, frugal install to portable drive and ran Grub4DOS. Booted up on the better laptop, made initial settings, made save folder and shutdown. All ok so far, no problems. Rebooted and everything still ok, no issues whatsoever.

So tried to boot it on the "troublesome" laptop. Again a delay at the start of the boot process, then eventually got a message to say it had failed. Displayed "can't read /etc/fstab : No such file or directory".

Now I don't know what /etc/fstab is (not that clever) but whatever it is I'm sure it didn't run off and hide just because I plugged the drive into a different laptop.

Anyway, I've spent more than enough time messing around with this, and can't really be bothered to spend any more time on it, so I'm going to mark this thread as abandoned.

[Chelsea80]

@ stevie pup

Fstab is your operating system's file system table -

An interesting article on Fstab can be found here:

https://www.howtogeek.com/38125/htg-exp ... s-it-work/

Whether it helps you or not is another matter -

BTW when I enter /etc/fstab in LXTerminal it gives this:

# /etc/fstab
bash: /etc/fstab: Permission denied
#

And pFind 6.3 - File finder gives this:

Fstab.jpg (34.85 KiB) Viewed 597 times

.
My OS is my signature

Best regards

Chelsea80

[stevie pup]

@Chelsea80 Interesting article about fstab, but unfortunately most of it went straight over my head. Besides, doesn't explain why fstab gives absolutely no problem when plugged into one laptop, but the other laptop doesn't even recognise it's there.

Perhaps fstab is saying "I don't like this laptop, so I'm going to hide".