BookwormPup64 10.0.8

[gyrog]

What I do like about Bookworm:

The fact that apt works.

I recently started a project to setup a media-center computer running "kodi", naturally running on Puppy.
The thing about Bookworm was I could simply follow the Debian "manual" apt commands, (without the "sudo"), and they worked.

So thankyou, folks who made this possible.

[Clarity]

@gyrog if you post your Kodi instructions or produce a PET, I would be interested. This with @ETP "Global IP TV Panel for WoofCE Pups" completes most of my TV viewing needs straight out of a Puppyland distro.

If possible and not time consuming for you.

[gyrog]

Code: Select all

apt -y install kodi
apt -y install kodi-repository-kodi

provides a basic kodi.
I also installed

Code: Select all

apt -y install kodi-inputstream-adaptive

to support "aussieaddons" repository.

[totiks2023]

Good day to you! Please tell me if I use apt, then I can use sfs later to quickly connect software modules, I know from experience using other portable linux distributions using modules that this is bad practice, how are things with pup64 with this, thank you.

[mikeslr]

totiks2023, as you may know, the loading/unloading of SFSes was an early addition to Puppy's repertoire when RAM seldom exceeded 256 Mbs. Available RAM is now much greater, but current applications also require more RAM. Rather than installing an application which always result in the reduction of some available RAM, an unloaded SFS requires no RAM. Employing first UFS (union file-system) later AUFS (Another Union file-system), SFSes (Squashed file-systems) could be loaded and unloaded on-the-fly. Such file-system could contain all the components required of entire application or even a suite of applications. See the post here for 'How Puppys Work", viewtopic.php?p=55827#p55827. Employing AUFS, an SFS is just another file-system to be managed.

Bookworm uses Overlays rather than AUFS. I may be mistaken. But AFAIK --while there is still work being done on the issue-- all the 'kinks' of loading and unloading SFSes on-the-fly have not been resolved. SFSes can be used. But a reboot is necessary to either load or unload them.

Earlier on this thread you'll find instructions for using Apt to download but not install the files of an application. See viewtopic.php?p=98847#p98847 and the several posts which follow it. The files will be downloaded to /var/cache/apt/archives/. IIRC, PaDS, viewtopic.php?p=6355#p6355 can be used under Bookworm to assemble the files accumulated there, then copied into a folder you name, into an SFS.

But given the current state of SFS-load-on-the-fly, my preference is (a) if the application is small, or frequently to be used, install it; later perhaps using Save2SFS to include it in an adrv.sfs, ydrv.sfs -these are automatically loaded on bootup-- or in a Remaster. (b) If the application is large, use PaDS to obtain an SFS, mount the SFS and use the mounted SFS as a Source for building a portable application. A portable Application can be manually opened by file-browsing to its executable (or wrapper script) and clicking it. Or links to the executable/script and the files necessary for Menu-entries can be installed. Requiring little RAM when not in use, the application is then always available.

[totiks2023]

thank you so much for your answer, I really liked Bookworm pup64, and I'm thinking of switching to it

[mikeslr]

thank you so much for your answer, I really liked Bookworm pup64, and I'm thinking of switching to it

And it would be mine except that I have 'spotty wifi' and for some reason my very much remastered Bionicpup-Revival is slightly better at establishing a connection for reasons I can only guess at.

Let me encourage your switch. In addition to portable-applications --you'll find a link to MIkewalsh's complete list here, viewtopic.php?p=48734#p48734-- the builtin libraries of Bookworm are sufficiently current that it is able to use the most up-to-date versions of many current AppImages. As a result the use of applications in SFS format is rare, if not entirely unnecessary. To use AppImages all you need to do is download them, change their permissions to make them executable, and then file-browse to them and Left-Click them. But you can also create menu-entries, after which they can be established as the default application for the file-type to create/modify. If you need it, I can uphold a pet you can use as a template for that.

Even before Bookworm was published almost the only application I used in SFS-format was libreoffice. As I consider it essential, my immediate solution was to install it using synaptic. But Mikewalsh, Burunduk and I continued to work with what was originally Mikewalsh's portable so that by now what exists is a portable template that makes use of an AppImage (it can be updated by replacement of the same), has menu-entries to its most often used components, and will open LibreOffice-writer or calc when file-types associated with them are Right-Clicked. See this thread, viewtopic.php?p=85579#p85579

[wiak]

...able to use the most up-to-date versions of many current AppImages. As a result the use of applications in SFS format is rare, if not entirely unnecessary. To use AppImages all you need to do is download them, change their permissions to make them executable, and then file-browse to them and Left-Click them. But you can also create menu-entries, after which they can be established as the default application for the file-type to create/modify.

I also use Appimages for some major apps, rather than any home-grown, difficult to maintain/upgrade home-grown mechanisms. What I've been looking for is some kind of maintained AppImage manager, one of which I'm evaluating right now per my KL post: https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 990#p99990

[gyrog]

Whoever is responsible for 'frugalpup-installers' script, I thankyou.
It's much cleaner than having them all in the main menu.
I hope this gets included in any future Puppy that includes 'FrugalPup'.

[Clarity]

Testing v10.0.2 - Report

Running smoothly idling less than 1%.

• The system was booted pristine via BWpup64 ISO file launched from SG2D USB.

• @ETP's GetCrhome PET v15.5 was installed and it was used to gather Chrome browser.

• The other packages, @ETP 'presents' to the community, were also added to the system.

• Multiple subfolders were added to "/mnt" using the terminal command mkdir ...

• terminal 'mount ..." for smb resources available from LAN PCs work as expected

• SAMBA was tailored for the public folder this PC shares to the LAN. Access to this public folder works as expected.

• QEMU v7.2 installed from SPM.
  @mistfire's qemu_re

• System session saved and rebooted via SG2D without issues as BWpup64 used the SAVESPEC successfully to gather the Session folder.

Problems

1. @01micko "findsmb" utility is MIA. It usually accompanys all PUPs since 2014, but missing here. This was discovered before session-save before shutdown.

2. Upon reboot after a session save, the sub-folders in "/mnt", created during pristine session, are NOT present

3. Opening a terminal, adding missing sub-folders and attempting to use mount command to access LAN smb resources end with following error messages. This is a confusing situation as before shutdown all is well; then after reboot this problem surfaces.

   Code: Select all

   mount error: cifs filesystem not supported by the system
   mount error(19): No such device
   Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g. man mount.cifs) and kernel log messages (dmesg)
   

Edit: I am pursuing that the combination of all the PETs added to the pristine use, have contributed to the problems I encountered, excepting the missing 'findsmb' (FINDSMB is used by me to update the PC's "hosts" file contents). I am starting testing over, pristine, and will limit the scope of the PETs added. This report will be updated.
Edit: See post below

[Clarity]

Problems 1 and 3 above are NOT distro problems!!!

They arise as the Persistence partition runs out of space and not be made aware at/during shutdown.

USER ERROR!

[Clarity]

Verifed that problem #2 above is accurate. Upon a reboot expected folder in /mnt is NOT present.

Terminal History of steps in pristine boot :

Code: Select all

apt update
mkdir -p /mnt/Laptop/data
mount -o password=woofwoof //Laptop/puppyshare /mnt/Laptop/data

Upon shutdown with session saved; then reboot; 'Laptop' folder-subfolder missing in system and is, also, not in the session folder.

[Clarity]

Subsequently, recreated the folder; this time in a 2nd location as well as repeating the 1st pristine effort.

Code: Select all

mkdir -p /mnt/Laptop/data /media/Laptop/data

This attempt was attempting to establish if the problem was specific to /mnt or general.

This time upon reboot, BOTH folders were intact???

Ideas, anyone...

[dimkr]

Puppy doesn't persist /mnt when you save for the first time, or when you save under PUPMODE 13. A directory under /mnt may be the mount point of a removable drive that won't be connected on next boot, persisting the mount point won't auto-mount the same partition after reboot (so why keep it?), and empty directories under /mnt without anything mounted can be confusing for users (for example, when this makes them wonder why a partition appears empty).

[Clarity]

Thanks @dimkr

My ideas for use in all my years is to create needed folders that will have a future use upon pristine boots. These folders will be used in the future and the locations that are created were done so in a high-level (root in this case) that is persistent (meaning built-in) within the OS.

I had not noticed in times before that WoofCE PUP's "/mnt" & subfolders would disappear after being established.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying by design, empty folders created in /mnt during pristine operation will be discarded upon subsequent boot. At the same time, other base empty folders in /mnt will continue to be maintained.

As you describe, of this Pristine at PUP mode 13 phenomenon, I will pay attention to going forward. This appears, from my findings, to be pristine-reboot behavior with this specific PUP. I say this because upon next boot with its save-session, I recreate it and upon the next reboot the folder is maintained across those reboots without the need to recreate them. Will check other WoofCE builds going forward.

Thanks, I will followup.

[dimkr]

Maybe it's because I'm not a native English speaker, maybe not, but I don't understand what "pristine boot" and "pristine operation" mean, among other things.

[gyrog]

@Clarity,
The dirrerence is between pupmode=12 and other pupmodes.
In pupmode=12 everything written during the session ends up in the savefolder.
To do anything else requires extra processing.

In pupmodes like 13, 77, and 66, code has to "copy" the files currently in a filesystem in RAM to a persistent media.
The more files that are copied, the longer it takes.
Many files written during a session have no value in being kept.
So the "copy" process is optimized by "copying" only the files that really need to be kept.
Curently '/mnt' is perceived as not needing to be kept.

So, there is no bug, just a policy decision.

Note: I use "copy" in a general sense, to cover any technique used to do the "copy".

[gyrog]

The Connection manager (Connman), used to generate an '/etc/resolv.conf'.
It doesn't any more.

I tried to setup a usb wi-fi dongle, but Connman failed to associate with my new router.
So, I decided to switch to give the old "tried-and-familiar" network managers a go.
That was a mistake.
None of them worked.
I eventually tracked down the log of "Simple Network Setup" and found that 'dhcpcd' does not exist.
Without 'dhcpcd' those scripts had no chance.

So I switched to a usb ethernet dongle, and switched back to Connman.
Well that works fine, in the sense that eth0 is "UP" and has an appropriate IP address.
But '/etc/resolv.conf' is empty. So utilities like 'nslookup' and 'ping' fail very quickly.

How can I get Connman to generate an '/etc/resolv.conf'?

[wiak]

I have solved the pipewire distortion problem in vmware。
removed all the pkgs about pipewire，installed pulseaudio。
the sound is normal now，no distortion。

Though I plan to stick with pipewire on the distros I use, I do sometimes get audio distortion when using it (KL distros). It is intermittent and rare for me and reboot always fixes it. Sometimes all was well and then suddenly have distortion so it is weird and just have to hope the issue is fixed over time since I see it as upstream dev problem. Some kind of timing glitch I would guess, so maybe such matters become more pronounced in virtual machines, but I'm only guessing: definitely pipewire does not seem quite as stable as pulseaudio does to me.

[Clarity]

... I don't understand what "pristine boot"

This refers to booting a forum distro for a 1st time without use of a save-session.

... "pristine operation" mean, among other things.

This cover the user operations of the pristine boot including normal operations ending at shutdown-reboot processing (including session saving, if chosen).

Thanks to you and @gyrog for addressing and expanding my understanding on the "/mnt" folder; particularly during a pristine operation. Muchly appreciated.

[mikeslr]

@Clarity, remember PupMode13 was originally created for use with USB-Keys. Other than it's Home Partition, what drives and partitions are available to a Puppy booted from a USB-Key will depend on what computer it is plugged into. Available drives/partitions have to be established anew on each boot-up. Preserving records of partitions and symbolic links to them might not only be a waste of effort, it could cause systemic problems: phantom partitions on which the User thinks he or she is storing data but which aren't really there.

One of the problems occasionally encountered has to do with timing. Although a partition has been dismounted it may still appear to be present in /mnt. During this period data can be written by file-browsing to the missing, unmounted partition 'sdX' by going up from ~root to /root, then down into /mnt/sdX. My recollection is that not only will such data not be preserved, until a reboot sdX can't actually be mounted.

[wizard]

@gyrog
testing BW64 10.0.2
frugal install on hdd

Confirmed, neither SNS nor Frisbee will connect wifi to the router (no ip). Ethernet also fails.

SNS ethernet:

internet1002.png (25.95 KiB) Viewed 7879 times

Log file:

Code: Select all

Information about this interface:
 Interface: eth0  Driver: r8169  Bus: pci  MacAddress: 00:1c:c0:f9:16:57
 Description: RealTek RTL-8169 Gigabit Ethernet driver
 
/sbin/sns: line 1177: dhcpcd: command not found
/sbin/sns: line 1192: dhcp

Worse, after resetting to Conman neither ethernet nor wifi will work.

Ethernet connects to the router, but fails to connect to the internet

Code: Select all

# ping yahoo.com
ping: bad address 'yahoo.com'

Wifi fails to connect to the router (no ip)

Hopefully @radky has a fix for this.

Thanks
wizard

[Clarity]

@Clarity, remember PupMode13 was originally created for use with USB-Keys. Other than it's Home Partition, what drives and partitions are available to a Puppy booted from a USB-Key will depend on what computer it is plugged into. Available drives/partitions have to be established anew on each boot-up. Preserving records of partitions and symbolic links to them might not only be a waste of effort, it could cause systemic problems: phantom partitions on which the User thinks he or she is storing data but which aren't really there.

Mike, thanks. Agreed, But...BIG BUT!
@gyrog has solved this problem for us, long ago. "SAVESPEC"! I keep ALL save-session in the same folder on a partition I have on EVERY system I have which I boot forum distros on: in my case the partition label is "Persistence" with folder-name 'Sessions'. Since discovering his additions within WoofCE, it has been a blessing as all WoofCE PUPs not only find their session, but on pristine boots, knows where to save the session...AUTOMATICALLY!

My SAVESPEC file is within the same folder where my ISO(s) boot from. It identifies persistence.

IT IS WONDERFUL.

Surprisingly, many/most members are unaware of this bonus benefit in boot and shutdown processing. If they knew, no one of us would ever UUID changes to boot stanzas.

Another item of note is that instead of UUID, since my sessions partitions is always named Persistence, I use the partition label instead of UUID and the efforts necessary to locate it prior to use. Using the partition label negates any need for a UUID effort or entry. Thus partition labels are easy to remember and understand; eliminating UUID efforts for booting.

Hope this info is helpful

One of the problems occasionally encountered has to do with timing. Although a partition has been dismounted it may still appear to be present in /mnt. During this period data can be written by file-browsing to the missing, unmounted partition 'sdX' by going up from ~root to /root, then down into /mnt/sdX. My recollection is that not only will such data not be preserved, until a reboot sdX can't actually be mounted.

Yes this can be a problem. As well each hardware's BIOS/UEFI and timings cause distress and differs from PC to PC when booting, too.

Agreed!

[radky]

@gyrog
testing BW64 10.0.2
frugal install on hdd

Confirmed, neither SNS nor Frisbee will connect wifi to the router (no ip). Ethernet also fails.

@wizard

Please test the following pet which provides netmon_wce and dhcpcd-base for those who switch to SNS or Frisbee in BW64 10.0.2. The Internet Connection Switcher option should support switching to/from ConnMan and legacy network tools (Menu -> Setup -> Internet Connection Switcher).

EDIT: pet removed.

Thanks @gyrog and @wizard for evaluating the pet package.

[dimkr]

@Clarity, remember PupMode13 was originally created for use with USB-Keys.

@gyrog has solved this problem for us, long ago. "SAVESPEC"! I

Mike is talking about what what is saved under PUPMODE 13, what isn't, and why. He explains why mount points that don't get saved are not a problem, and he's right: you don't need the mount point for sdc1 after you reboot; maybe you're booting this flash drive installation of Puppy on a different computer, and maybe the drive you had mounted in your previous session happens to be disconnected. If you mount sdc1, the mount point will be created if it doesn't exist, and this directory has no use if you don't use sdc1 or don't have it connected, so why keep it?

You, @Clarity, are talking about some mechanism that determines what partition to use for saving, and not what to save to this partition.

These two things are not exactly related.

Surprisingly, many/most members are unaware of this bonus benefit in boot and shutdown processing.

I guess they just try to use their computer to do stuff and lead a happy life, a "pristine boot" and creation of a new save file/folder is not something they do often

[wizard]

@radky

testing BW64 10.0.2
frugal install on hdd

-installed BW_netmon_wce_amd64_testing.pet
-rebooted

All interfaces and apps working. Did have to disable the firewall to get SNS and Frisbee to connect.

Thanks
wizard

[Clarity]

... he's right: you don't need the mount point for sdc1 after you reboot...

There may be a language issue at play here. But I think you may have missed the "Thanks" given to @gyrog's explanation and YOU may have missed the "AGREED" shared with @mikeslr. Further, I am unaware of "sdc1" unless you have eyes on someone's computer somewhere.

... I guess they just try to use their computer to do stuff and lead a happy life, a "pristine boot" and creation of a new save file/folder is not something they do often

Here, again, may be a translation issue or you feel the boot and shutdown processing by @gyrog is lacking somewhere and largely unnecessary or even unimportant. I strongly disagree with that position. Or you may have missed that his work doesn't just apply to pristine, but also to the ongoing start and stops that users might do each night or each time they will restart their PCs.

Hope I am wrong in the interpretations you are presenting.

[gyrog]

@radky,
I have installed your 'BW_netmon_wce_amd64_testing.pet'
On switching to the legacy Network managers, SNS works fine.
On switching back to Connman, '/etc/resolv.conf' is generated, so nslookup and ping now work.

My network issues are solved.
Thanks

[gyrog]

@wizard,
Thanks for confirming my issues.

[Clarity]

@Clarity, remember PupMode13 was originally created for use with USB-Keys.

... just try to use their computer to do stuff ...

I did understand the info shared by Mike. Its good info.

BUT, I have not had a PUPMODE 13 for years as you and many others know I boot to desktop via their ISO/IMG files. In these cases all WoofCE pristine boots arrive upon desktop in PUPMODE 5. (Not 13). Here's today test as an example of booting, pristine, this thread's distro:

Event Manager.png (70.01 KiB) Viewed 7684 times

Hope this brings insight.