KLV-SwayBASE

[wiak]

So this was a lot more work than I wanted to do; took me ages, but I'm enjoying the interesting result at least.

Snapshot iso now available temporarily here (made in a hurry cos short of time, but worked in Ventoy for me, but no guarantees - my recommended remains 'build script frugal install method'):

Changes:
Added yad
Includes cup printing support; Mod+Shift+b to open firefox and go to url: http://localhost:631/printers/

https://mega.nz/file/4rF32ThB#EPSBKESX8 ... it6Nk-VjyM
md5sum 04c8d2f23ce22a57e32e09ef6a2bdb75 KLV_SwayBASE-002rc6.iso

Iso size 1.1 GiB. Yes, I could have kept iso download size under 1GiB but preferred good modules/firmware and to compress main sfs with zstd and sacrifice download size for distro speed/responsiveness rather than using high-compression xz for almost irrelevant few hundred MiB smaller iso size...
You could always remove firefox and use a portable browser...
I have things I still want to add to this, but no time to complete right now. Just left it with KLV-Airedale boot splash for now...

KLbuild_Void_wayland_swayBASE.sh (currently using Vanilla Dpup huge-kernel/modules/firmware, thanks)

Per usual, put the above single script in the empty directory you want to boot frugal install from and run the build with simple command:

Code: Select all

./KLbuild_Void_wayland_swayBASE.sh

You can use the provided and accurate grub stanza to then boot via your grub installation.

fetches and uses f_ build plug: f_00_Void_wayland_sway_no-kernelBASE.plug

Sway/wayland/pipewire is the future for sure for me.

This distro has a lot going for it, but you need to learn shortcut keys per the config file (bit of a learning curve, but simple really and very efficient):

~/.config/sway/config. Look for bindsym keys used (and can modify, but I keep as close to default as possible for longer term simplicity/compatibility). Waybar config and style.css file is at ~/.config/waybar

A few issues (working quite well overall, but a few 'flaky' behaviours at times; partly because I'm not used to it and some sway/waybar configs could be improved...):

1. On first boot in w_changes=RAM2 mode I notice the waybar volume control doesn't show. Just snapmergepuppy (or use: mod+Shift+p for [p]ersistence save).
2. mod+Shift+n open nmtui window but sometimes not working per expectations. Just open a terminal first maybe (mod+Enter) and once connected again save to persistence. Fine after - no time to look into it further just now.
3. Be careful the text curson is focussed where you think it is (activates via hover). I sometimes find it in place window or tile other than I expected...
4. You'll need to change the timezone since I use Pacific/Auckland in default f_plug build. You change it at line 129 to your own in the f_ build plug.
NOTE: If you want to download f_ plug first so you can fix timezone to your own prior to build you can fetch it with:

Code: Select all

wget -c https://gitlab.com/firstrib/firstrib/-/raw/master/latest/build_system/wayland_f_plugs/f_00_Void_wayland_sway_no-kernelBASE.plug

5. I haven't configured pcmanfm or geany so you need to go to their Preferences and, for example, make default terminal sakura and single click behaviour and set bookmarks and whatever view/hidden you want and so on...
6. I haven't tried out or set up many of the included wayland utility apps, but put them in to play with.
7. Note the xargs f_ plug file method of installing the packages. I used this method, which I strongly recommend, in earlier FR Arch releases. It prevents an xbps-install line failing when any single app isn't found in the Void repo.
8. Please consider this f_ plug a general form of template for this type of KL build.

Some important keys (note: mod is Windows super key):

(NOTE: hover mouse over tile focusses it)
mod+Shift+n - open nmtui to connect to Internet (can Escape out once finished or Quit)
(note: can alternatively click Waybar network button for nmtui tile)
mod+Shift+p - to run snapmergepuppy save persistence when w_changes=RAM2
(or alternatively, run: sudo snapmergepuppy in a terminal...)
mod+Enter - open sakura terminal as regular user (spot)
mod+Shift+t - open sakura (t)erminal as root user
mod+d - open wofi (d)eskmenu file launcher (apps run as user spot)
mod+Shift+b - to open Firefox (b)rowser (as spot)
mod+Shift+f - to open (f)ilemanager PCmanfm as root user
mod+Shift+g - to open (g)eany as root user
mod+f - to toggle tiled app fullscreen
mod+Shift+spacebar to toggle float a tile (can resize floating window with mouse)
mod+1 (or 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0) to open new workspace
(note that 'odd numbered' workspaces are set to 'autotile', even numbered work spaces manual tile, but you can drag tiles in either mode via their top bar to new locations via mouse drag)
mod+Shift+s (s for shutdown) followed by r for reboot or p for poweroff or l (small L) to lock screen (password spot to unlock)
Can also simply use: mod+l (small l) to lock screen
mod+Shift+m - opens small sway-menu gui (for tile focussed on)
mod+Shift+c to reload sway and waybar config if needed ever
mod+v for vertical tile split (manual control)
mod_b for horizontal tile split (per sway config default)

I find this one really handy:

Press down mod key and use right-button mouse pressed down and you can resize even tiled window horizontal width or vertical height.

Can change sway operation mode if you wish (I don't like so much):

mod+s - for layout stacking
mod+w - for layout tabbed
mod_e - to toggle back to split tiles

Haven't myself used the sway 'scratchpad' where you can send windows and get them back later:

# Move the currently focused window to the scratchpad
mod+Shift+minus move scratchpad

mod+Shift+x exec gammastep -l 0:0 -o -b 0.7:0.7 # gamma brightness to 70%. Change to what you want
mod+Shift+s exec wlogout # graphical GUI logout panel
focus_follows_mouse no
wofi --show=drun --allow-images --columns=5 # provides GUI desktop apps menu

LOTS of other combinations I haven't learned in ~/.config/sway/config

Apps include:

sway, labwc (which can be run in a tile with some app window started up inside using the likes of terminal command: labwc -s sakura &), which allows you to simultaneously experiment with labwc compositor (like a wayland openbox).
snappy,curl,wget,rsync,bash,vpm,light,chrony,NetworkManager,python3,mako,wofi,wmenu,lavalauncher,Waybar,dmenu,wev,wl-clipboard,wayclip,swaylock,swayidle,wlr-randr,wlsunset,wlogout,playctl,autotiling
pipewire,pavucontrol,ffmpeg,mpv
wayvnc,swappy,wlclock,grim,slurp,grimshot,maim
imv,lxtask,foot,sakura,geany,pcmanfm/gvfs,mtpaint,gsimplecal,ranger,nnn,git
galculator,firefox
file,wob,wdisplays,wf-recorder,blueman,gammastep

I've also included AppImage Manager (am --help for usage), which automates AppImage fetch along with desktop file (puts the AppImage into /opt hierarchy).
I use 'am' for cherrytree and libreoffice on my installation.

[geo_c]

Well, that looks fun.

I'll be doing a build of KLV-Swayland

Though I suspect at some point @Sofiya will build one so nice that I end up using that one.

[Clarity]

@wiak This, is a directed move to match current trends.

Thanks for this leadership.

Looking forward ...

[wiak]

@wiak This, is a directed move to match current trends.

Yes, it is a case of Wayland not being the future, but now... I believe we need to get used to the differences, advantages, issues involved in using Wayland (especially those doing development work). That isn't always straightforward - it is a different underlying technology and people have become used to X after decades of using it, to the extent that most googled knowledge is about tricks to do things in X. It is not that Wayland doesn't work, and probably works better in many ways, but change is always difficult to make; humans tend to like stability and reject what they see as newcomers. However, we need as developers to embrace Wayland for these current times. Gnome/Wayland and KDE/Kwin is too big for most of us here, so tiling manager Sway becomes important along with the likes of labwc (opebox-like compositor).

[wiak]

The main thing I haven't done that needs looked into is getting this working the way user might want is to ascertain best dual-monitor set up. I didn't look into that because I don't currently have dual monitors...

My youngest son, however does, and he just told me to use command:

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wlr-randr

with no arguments to find monitor name, which was eDP-1 on his system, and then he chooses to turn off his small laptop screen via:

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wlr-randr --output eDP-1 --off

Obviously a nice GUI frontend will be useful for this sort of utility and maybe some are available (or need written).

If he didn't turn off that primary screen then the big screen appears on different workspace, number 2 I think, and that one isn't autotiling the way I have things set up in sway/config.

[rockedge]

@wiak I ran a build and it works nicely on a QEMU VM (with F96-CE_4 as the host) booted from an ISO.

I'll run it awhile with QEMU to get used to the navigation and bindings and then I will boot it on a bare metal machine.

Note: in QEMU I had to select the Cirrus CLGD 5446 as the graphics card which seems to be doing the trick.

The QEMU system is in a 1024x786 resolution:

Screenshot(26).jpg (15.21 KiB) Viewed 7039 times

[wiak]

So it was earlier today I asked my 12 year old if he wanted to try KLV-Swayland... Though he is fussy and loves his FirstRibbed Arch EndeavourOS, he said yes, so I installed it with first post script. It was shortly after that he reported his wl-randr fix for his dual monitor wishes, and I noticed he stayed using KLV-Swayland throughout the day (when he was on computer that is...). I had already shown him AppImage Manager (am --help) program a few days ago more generally, so he had used that to install his favourite 'discord' Appimage, and other stuff to do with Minecraft I know nothing about...

I too have been using KLV-Swayland all day, and though I did the configs I was still not really familiar with tiling manager use. However, I'm also still on it, and have to say I find it much more efficient, the way I do things, than XFCE desktop. Yes, it is a bit less point and click oriented, so somehow reminds me of the olden days, but wow, the tiling methodology is just fantastic (I see now why you've all been playing with tiling window managers of various types) for organising everything (especially on a big screen). At first I thought I'd miss task bar, but actually I don't (and prefer small tiles when necessary for some apps; easy enough to just mod+f them to toggle fullscreen).

Certainly I doubt most windows refugees would happily adapt to this, nor people whose memories are going (okay so can use hot-key helper programs, but point and click is easier on the brain really), but I am so used to remembering all sorts of commandline rubbish remembering a few main hot keys is no issue at all and well worth it in terms of speed. I think point and click stackable still useful/easier at times, but do think a combined use of sway with labwc in a tile might provide the best of both worlds if set up appropriately and I was pleasantly surprised that running labwc in a tile didn't cost much at all in resource usage.

[wiak]

Looking forward ...

I presume you are looking forward to the iso and one will certainly be produced eventually. However...

Let's see if we have a useful interim solution where all those people that just boot via Ventoy boot stick can include using KL build script as well as isos!!!

First of all, lets see if Ventoy is easier than normal frugal install to achieve (this is not a fight about the plus or minuses - just an analysis - certainly Ventoy is useful):

I'd say that the most difficult part of installation here is that we need to somehow install a boot-loader; and that isn't easy to achieve. Ventoy comes with that and thus solves the problem!!! However, you still need enough technical ability to write the Ventoy disk to usb stick. Fine. Let's say typical user can manage that.

Next step would usually be that you need an iso (or suitable img file) to download and put on the Ventoy stick data area (usually needing Linux formatted so a bit tricky to arrange that too - however let's assume that has been managed too...).

Downloading an iso takes time. So, does running the KLV_SwayBASE install script, so I'd argue that the time, effort, and difficulty involved there, is much the same. But yes, KLV_Sway build assumes you have a working grub2 installation, and that I would say is the real problem and Ventoy solves it!!!

A normal frugal installation here in fact also involves downloading an iso, but usually has the additional technical step of needing to extract all the parts out of the iso, so that is more difficult than simple iso to Ventoy. But a KLV script build doesn't involve any extraction either - you just run the script so easy too. Main problem still, however, is that a working grub2 is required and so Ventoy wins again there (unless user has already managed to install grub elsewhere in a different manner, which is certainly complex to achieve, though many of us have managed that to our hard disks for example).

One problem we have (and been lots of discussion about this) is that not all isos boot okay with Ventoy (and achieving save persistence is often an issue for many that do). Yes, Ventoy can boot SG2D iso, as you pointed out Clarity, but that has other problems in terms of messy menus and slow boot times.

Well over a year ago, a way round these issues was proposed:
viewtopic.php?p=43169#p43169

1. In the Ventoy "boot" partition, locate the file /grub/localboot.cfg.

2. Replace it with the version attached below. (Remove the fake .gz extension).
...
You could also use the Multi Installer to do a frugal install onto Ventoy's data partition and boot it with F4.

Bill (rcrsn51), that technique resolved my bullseye isos booting issue, thanks.

You could also use the Multi Installer to do a frugal install onto Ventoy's data partition and boot it with F4.

That works, but has its own issue that it involves over-writing a standard Ventoy file in /grub/localboot.cfg (followed by hitting F4 key).

But, good news that no-one seems to have noticed... Ventoy provides a plug mechanism exactly for this issue that does not involve or need that F4 hack. So, as an example (I'll put brief summary in HowTo later) for KLV_SwayBASE script build install type do the following:

1. Boot a suitable Linux distro and make sure your Ventoy usb stick is plugged in.
2. Create an empty directory in the Ventoy data partition. Let's call it /KLV-Swayland (or if you want tidier you could use a sub-directory structure like /frugals/KLV-Swayland).
3. Fetch the tiny KLbuild_Void_wayland_swayBASE.sh script from first post of this thread, make it executable and run it from terminal with the command:

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./KLbuild_Void_wayland_swayBASE.sh

4. Now drink some coffee whilst it completes the build (takes about same time downloading iso would do...)
5. Once the build is complete, the exact grub2 menu stanza will be reported automatically (or look in created text file grub_config.txt and you'll find the exact stanza that will boot the system provided there).

Now, How To get Ventoy grub2 to use that stanza:

6. In same Ventoy data partition create an empty folder exactly called /ventoy and in there create a single text file called ventoy_grub.cfg. That is the plugin Ventoy makes provision for this exact ability to boot any install be those frugal, full, isos that otherwise don't boot, or whatever.

In that ventoy_grub.cfg text file simple put all the grub2 menu stanzas you want to include; one after the other. If only wanting to boot the newly built KLV_SwayBASE install just use that step 5 above stanza.

7. Reboot using your Ventoy usb stick. When normal Ventoy menu appears... press key F6 and the normal Ventoy menu will immediately be replaced by the menu provided in your ventoy_grub.cfg plug file.

END of STORY. No over-writing special Ventoy /grub/localboot.cfg required at all.

Summary:

Create folder /ventoy in Ventoy data partition.

Create file ventoy_grub.cfg with menu stanzas in it

Boot your system with choice of using standard Ventoy menu or pressing F6 for you ventoy_grub.cfg menu instead.
And note well: No SGD2 is required in this scheme at all since ventoy_grub.cfg ordinary grub2 boot iso type stanzas will boot any iso normal ventoy menu can't.

END RESULT is the the Ventoy usb stick can with above scheme be used to boot anything AND it provides the grub2 install for us. EASY - a boot anything system. I agree with you now. But forget SGD2 - that's a slow mess.

BTW... you can in fact put the KLV_Swayland anywhere on your system (in Linux formatted partition) and still use that Ventoy usb stick /ventoy/ventoy_grub.cfg to boot it using the KLV grub stanza reported, and of course you can boot Pups and other normal frugal installs too (and my special KL_multi installs) via same /ventoy/ventoy_grub.cfg file - all with guaranteed working persistence. Problem over.

[geo_c]

Well this is right on time! I use Ardour DAW because I don't run Windows, but this piece of software, Presonus Studio One is fantastic software and ran great on Windows when I still used it. It only runs with Wayland and Linux support is still in Beta: https://www.phoronix.com/news/PreSonus- ... e-On-Linux

Ardour is a good DAW, and free, so I'll probably stick with it in the long run. But once I get KLV-Swayland running I'll probably give Presonus a try.

Although I notice it requires Vulkan graphics drivers and compatible hardware, so that might be an issue.

[Sofiya]

Well this is right on time! I use Ardour DAW because I don't run Windows, but this piece of software, Presonus Studio One is fantastic software and ran great on Windows when I still used it. It only runs with Wayland and Linux support is still in Beta: https://www.phoronix.com/news/PreSonus- ... e-On-Linux

Ardour is a good DAW, and free, so I'll probably stick with it in the long run. But once I get KLV-Swayland running I'll probably give Presonus a try.

Although I notice it requires Vulkan graphics drivers and compatible hardware, so that might be an issue.

In Arch-Linux Arbour is now automatically installed with PulseAudio Equalizer, this is not very pleasing because it weighs a lot Mib.The only way out is not to install PulseAudio Equalizer

[Clarity]

I presume you are looking forward to the iso and ...

Read your post. Nice. I will be giving it a run after some prior commitments to fellow members.

The Following is couple of items some of which KL members know:

1. Ventoy's many boot abilities
I am sure you already know this, but Ventoy will boot distro "img" files as well as ISOs. SG2D does NOT do "img".

This is just a note.

Next, Ventoy has a recent NEW cool product where no USB is needed to boot a wired PC; it is named:

2. IVENTOY
This is just some additional info on the ISO booting I, personally, have been doing. It is some re-imagined PXE booting of ISO files. I had used @jamesbond's two (yes 2) PXE methods for booting his distros. AND, most recently, I have used the iVentoy method of starting a ISO file from a PXE server to boot distros.

Here's an explanation of its benefit, offered to this KL community, where it would be a welcoming community of viewers. My explanation attempts to simply explain at a high level. (Lower-level setup instruction are on the FATDOG v900 forum page.) For anyone in this community, it takes less than 4-5 minutes for any initial test on a 'wired' LAN. PXE technology is ONLY shipped by PC manufactures to work with wired LANs for about 30 years; so NO USER need install anything. The primary benefit to iVentoy, for wired LAN owners, is that any old dumb PC running ANY KL can be used to provide boot ability to other PCs in owner's LAN community. Those PCs will see the ISO files allowing the user to choose which ever they like. Persistence will work as it always does. And, the newest KL facility(s) presented by @wiak will work as he intends, as well. Thus, those PC(s) need NO "LOCAL" boot media/materials to boot to desktop as all boot images are gotten over the LAN. They'll just start their PCs to their LAN adapter, choose the distro they want and wait a moment or 2 for desktop.

I think WE should be aware that, for now, FATDOG is the ONLY forum distro that has been found to have the ability to be DIRECTLY booted via the selections presented by iVentoy. It boots without problems in the same fashion as other well-known OSes boot PCs over PXE.

SG2D also boots via iVentoy and for all other forum distros since 2019, they can be booted from the SG2D selection screen.

Again, this is just a heads-up post of my current findings in ISO and IMG booting techniques as I continue to test forum distros for their booting abilities.

The forum has moved the boot ability needle "significantly" since 2019.We now have many methods of a Frugal operation whether doing it

• from manually moving and creating folders of a forum distro's content and adjusting GRUB2 boot stanzas

• booting an ISO file directly to desktop ... directly from an adjusted GRUB2 boot stanza

• using SG2D's ability to present ISO files without user needs to adjust boot stanzas

• using Ventoy's ability to present ISO/IMG files without user needs to adjust boot stanzas

• using Ventoy's ability to above AS WELL AS @wiak method presented to us

• Using PXE ability of PCs to boot as if Frugal installed

All of these methods are viable.

I do believe, though, @wiak's recent work is one of the greater news in innovation for our use. I foresee this his efforts as foundational to where KL's are leading us. Multi-instances, wayland simplicity, etc. As well as others efforts in audio (ie Pipewire, etc). WOW!

I will report back soon.

PXE-boot-Server-configuration-1.png (22.39 KiB) Viewed 6815 times

PXE-boot-Server-configuration-2.png (73.68 KiB) Viewed 6811 times

[wiak]

I think WE should be aware that, for now, FATDOG is the ONLY forum distro that has been found to have the ability to be DIRECTLY booted via the selections presented by iVentoy. It boots without problems in the same fashion as other well-known OSes boot PCs over PXE.

I can imagine reasons why KL distros will not boot via this mechanism whereas FatDog does. I'm surprised that Puppy Linux doesn't though. KL distros do not search filesystems for components generally and maybe iVentoy needs a distro with an initrd that does. However, I will try it eventually, somtime.

[wiak]

Both my son and myself continue to be using KLV-SwayBASE fulltime, which is a good sign. I normally get tired quickly and then revert back to my work machine Linux Mint XFCE (!), albeit running that under FirstRib initrd frugal install control of the underlying full-installed Mint distro. However... I'm really finding tiles useful and though xfce also provides workspaces I'm finding the mechanism works better with Sway or maybe it is simply because I have taken time to learn the keystrokes to quickly send a window to a particular workspace. Main result is that I am running big apps full screen all the time and others maybe in a 50:50 split though sometimes with terminals lots of little tiles which I expand when needed. Resource consumption remains low, so I'm more than happy with the experience so far.

Oh I've also now started to use: send a tiled app to scratchpad and then pop it back again later or send it to different workspace later. I don't find that particularly important as a facility yet, but I can see times when it will be. Mind you, it is easy to just focus on any tile and move it to a different workspace so that can act like a taskbar/scratchbar anyway, but better really.

But yes, this kind of window manager (well, actually a compositor since Wayland-based) is very foreign to me, but becoming less so; thus far I really don't feel any impulse to go back to Linux Mint XFCE.

[Clarity]

I can imagine reasons ...

Be aware, that if your "iso" folder that iVentoy sets up contains SG2D ISO, it can be booted to present forum distros including KLs that boot to desktop if the ISO files are in a BOOTISOS folder on the local PC drive. SG2D will find them and list them for selection.

I predict that for most of the forum's developers, this is apparent within 10 minutes.

For KL people (PUP users too) I can foresee you having FATDOG, SG2D, KLs, newest MInt, etc in the iVentoy folder setup for you.

If I remember correctly, I think @fredx181's distros use the FATDOG method of booting. Although, I haven't gotten around to testing that distro family, yet. Maybe @rcrsn51 has already done so.

FYI

[wiak]

So my 12 year old son is proving to give me best feedback and improvements thus far to KLV-Swayland. Young minds adapt so well and so sharp thinking compared to us old guys...

So here are a couple of improvements he found:

1. First, it was a nightmare the way focus was working based on mouse hover. I kept finding myself typing into wrong window, which is dangerous when geany, for example, is open - mucking up existing files.

Solution my wee one gave me:

In ~/.config/sway/config:

At end of section "# Focus window settings" add:

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focus_follows_mouse no

2. Next he pointed out I had included a program 'wlogout', which I did know about but hadn't tried or set up for Sway use. In ~/.config/sway/config now using:

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# Shutdown, Reboot, Lock Screen, and Logout 
bindsym $mod+Shift+s      exec wlogout
#set $power_mode "power"
#bindsym $mod+Shift+s      mode $power_mode

3. Finally, the wee one has a big monitor connected to his laptop, but xrandr doesn't work to control brightness or gamma and wlr-randr doesn't include that functionality. There is a way to communicate with most monitors and cause brightness to be turned down, but his was already manually turned down on the monitor itself to minimum, which was still too bright. He therefore searched and told me he is using:

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xbps-install -S gammastep

To use it nicely with Sway, in ~/.config/sway/config, near the bottom of the config he is using:

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bindsym $mod+Shift+x exec gammastep -l 0:0 -o -b 0.5:0.5

Which toggles half-brightness (tho actually done via gamma corrections).

EDIT: Should point out why I only arranged for odd-numbered workspaces to autotile. Reason is that if you want to use mod+w, mod+t, mod+e such that a workspace can be stacked or tabbed rather than tiled, that doesn't work when a workspace is auto-tiled. Hence leaving some workspaces as manual tiled. In actual fact, (wee one discovered) if you move tiles beside other ones manually on otherwise auto-tiled workspace the results can be stacked or tabbed (i.e. via mod+w and so on).

I'll make the above changes in future KLV-Swayland build script release.

EDIT2: Personally, I now have cherrytree fullscreen on my workspace1, firefox on workspace2, various sakura terminals auto-tiled on workspace3 (one of which is 'cat' showing me contents of .config/sway/config as a memory jolter...), and root user pcmanfm on workspace4. I've never been so organised... Great thing is that you can quickly move an app to a different workspace by focussing on it and pressing mod+Shift+workspace_number

Anyway, shows how useful to have youngsters in the family using the distro; best feedback/bug-reports ever, as well as provided solutions. Makes my maintenance/development job easy. Wayland being very different from X deserves as much familiarity as possible for future relevant dev work - that's why I've moved to using it despite having been very comfortable using X window managers (and particularly XFCE).

I'm surprised none of the current tiling window manager experiments with X have included the best know 'i3', but fact is there is no point in using that one when Sway is pretty much the same thing but with more relevant, now really, Wayland. I certainly don't want to talk-down the other efforts; they are still fine for now, but the end of X times is a-looming guys and we need more devs learning the tricks/workarounds/best-practices for getting the most out of Wayland (and hopefully at least as good as X functionality once we know how to achieve that).

EDIT3: For desktop menu items to appear under mod+d see newer post: viewtopic.php?p=100689#p100689

For making screencasts: viewtopic.php?p=100692#p100692

[wiak]

With wlogout called up by mod+Shift+s in above sway config change, the result is per the attached graphic (escape key to cancel logout/shutdown).

The delayed screenshot was taken using the simple terminal command:

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sleep 10; grim

[rockedge]

I'm surprised none of the current tiling window manager experiments with X have included the best know 'i3'

I first went with Spectrwm because of it's minimalism and the resulting low impact on system resources AND that the configuration file was text based and easy to jump right into and get results. After getting familiar with it delved into the other more refined tiling WM's

KLV-Spectr-RT is actually specifically made for work that needs lots of computing power and extremely low latency. Like audio/sound engineering, recording/editing and running lots of mixers, effects and software synthesizers all at the same time with no stutter no buffering and instant responsiveness from the controls. For me it didn't need any eye candy or beauty but it does need raw power and speed and since I am not a graphics designer and grew up on GUI-less mainframes with complicated shell batch programing and interesting command line only administration, so I welcome immensely all the work that the team does to make a distro like KLV-Spectr-RT maximize it's polish and refinement

I figured we'd go straight through X11 right to wayland - pipewire and once the real power of the tiling window manager was evident and seeing how once the work flow and commands were better known and understood that the tiling type WM will be a very interesting way to go with KLV's.

@wiak I'm really glad your son is now on the team making those real world discoveries wrangling KLV-Sway into a thoroughbred OS.

Now to get the KLV-Spectr advancements and shiny polish into a script-PLUG.......

So far the KLV-Sway build script is doing a good job producing a boot-able system though still getting used to the desktop controls......I switch around so much it all gets blended....like what is the Super or MOD key now?

[geo_c]

I think it's a great idea to have Spectr around, because from what I can tell it still runs at the lowest RAM usage threshold, less than 300MB, with the polish that @Sofiya added, it's very much like Bspwm and Awesome.

With Swayland in the mix, running pipewire, the offerings are quite versatile. In keeping with "puppy ethos" Spectr can be used on older low resource machines, Swayland for the most up to date frameworks, and Awesome and Bspwm for alternative window managers, all with a similar look and underlying Void base. It's really a win-win IMO.

Eventually when Xfce adopts Wayland, then KLV-Airedale could be updated (not by me most likely ) and then the KLV family will be extremely well-rounded with Xwin and Wayland, Tiling and Floating window managers, pipewire and pulse.

You guys are really pumping out the options, and I still haven't setup the first-rib multi-instance boot scenario yet. I'm too busy playing with these various window managers.

[Clarity]

I see the KL's future in Wayland and Pipewire with the GUI utilities that will speed and make easy user acceptance, use, and contributions.

Wayland and supporting WMs, as implemented, presents the user interface. In some cases, the names of the WMs will change or new ones will arrive. KDE and GNOME are just folding the technology into their base to make it easy for users to unwittingly fold into the future of today's operations. Wayland is here for the next decade or longer.

While Pipewire is so fantastic in its potential it is incredible. Future Pipewire GUIs will focus on the "wiring" aspects of the system and will significantly expand users use of their PCs with the GUIs ability to 'see' and 'rewire' depending on their needs. This is one of the most fascinating components that has come along in years. Those who are comfortable with wiring diagrams will LOVE what we are gaining in this era of technology in the users hands. We have begun a new movement in visual use of our PCs and our homes.

For the musically inclined this will be embraced simply and easily with clear understanding. For the masses, it will become a normal tool in their understanding and use of their systems for A-V use.

KL's movement ensures its step for future use. Within months these will not be new at all. And refinements will be normal.

[wiak]

My son reports an occasional boot "integer" error that requires him to reboot. I did see that myself earlier, but not lately. I think elogind maybe not setting some variables wayland needs, or in sufficient time, and the error probably on if statement somewhere that checks content of that variable. I have no fix at the moment; maybe hard to track down - I imagine it is a timing glitch so a small sleep somewhere might fix it, but I don't know more at present. Please report if any of you come across same error when booting it ever.

[wiak]

Okay, I found this one myself:

In ~/.config/sway/config instead of the wofi command that is there at the moment, use:

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set $menu wofi --show=drun --allow-images

and the desktop icons then appear beside the menu names.

or maybe better have mutliple columns for the icons. For example:

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set $menu wofi --show=drun --allow-images --columns=5

mod+Shift+c to reload sway per usual.

[wiak]

I can't remember why, but I don't seem to have installed wf-recorder, which turns out quite small on my current system and works to record area of screen fine as a .mkv file:

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sudo xbps-install -S wf-recorder

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wf-recorder -g "$(slurp)" -f $(date +%Y-%m-%d_%H-%M-%S).mkv

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wf-recorder --audio -f $(date +%Y-%m-%d_%H-%M-%S).mkv

Don't have this last one working yet. Found on Russian website https://yamadharma.github.io/ru/post/20 ... tion-sway/ and I don't yet speak Russian (despite taking it as a course at university when I was chess mad, but only stayed in course for a couple of weeks cos took up too much of my real studies in Electronic Engineering time...):

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wf-recorder --audio -f $(date +%Y-%m-%d_%H-%M-%S).mkv -c h264_vaapi -d /dev/dri/renderD128

[wiak]

new wofi look attached

Using the:

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set $menu wofi --show=drun --allow-images --columns=5

[wiak]

Initial RAM usage depends really what background processes you want and have running so you can slim that down if you want (it's pretty low anyway) and could also use @rockedge realtime kernel with this as an alternative.

For example, Xwayland is unnecessarily running by default - just kill that if not wanted. Similarly, autotiling, though nice, is a luxury - kill that if you don't want it! But a 50MB or 100MB here and there hardly seems relevant to me - the browser will consume a couple hundred MB for each gmail, or facebook, or Whatsapp tab opened, so that's just reality and so I'd just accept the pleasure of Xwayland always available for now till X-use dies completely...

Overall, Wayland is said to be faster and more efficient than X performance-wise (overall desktop depending on processes running of course), but don't take me wrong - X still fine and worth investigating any and all window managers since same ideas get used in Wayland designs, but maybe take time before all quite so good in Wayland versions - that will come. My experiments are more to get ready for the future and I also check out X wm work and absorb ideas/scripts/techniques discovered in all of that too. Not so sure XFCE wayland version will come around any time soon though - so not holding my breathe about that, but actually I'm enjoying the tiling experience (and would equally good for me if X tiling manager or this wayland Sway I feel).

As we all know, Sway is based on X wm i3, but I expect wayland compositors based on all these other X tiling managers will come along eventually - no reason they wouldn't since their developers will likely future proof their designs in that way. It is all a learning experience and nothing will be lost in that sense either way. It may indeed yet take some years before Wayland provides us always with quite as nice an experience as X-based wm(s) already do, though it is all looking very promising to me now.

What is important to me is that KL distros should never be seen as 'competing' with each other. Rather they complement and help in each others design and development. There has been a bit of an old protectionist tendency on this forum in the past, and a little of it still maybe, to treat alternatives as competitors. But that's a silly negative view of development and collaboration. At KL we embrace all technologies we experiment with and that helps us experience new ideas with openness and enthusiasm and prevents any narrowness in our thinking process.

[wiak]

An interesting-looking alternative to wofi is fuzzel, which is also available in Void Linux repos:

https://mark.stosberg.com/fuzzel-a-grea ... r-wayland/
https://codeberg.org/dnkl/fuzzel?ref=mark.stosberg.com

However, I prefer wofi at this stage.

[wiak]

Really, its impossible to suggest any 'best' config for Sway (probably same with other tiling managers/compositors). But for more sophisticated better organised via ~/.config/sway/config.d pieces see the likes of:

https://github.com/OdiousImp2604/swayWM ... ts/menu.sh

and

EndeavourOS variant: https://github.com/OdiousImp2604/Sway-EndeavourOS

Lots of great ideas in that that can be extracted and used anyway.

'River' is another wayland compositor (tiling dynamic) available at void repos; I've downloaded it but haven't tried it out as yet. Programmed in 'zig'...
https://github.com/riverwm/river

[dimkr]

https://github.com/philj56/tofi is nice too, very dmenu-like.

[wiak]

Updated KLV-SwayBASE f_ plug now and uploaded to first post of this thread.

Now includes the improvements documented thus far in the thread.

Includes new:

file,wob,wdisplays,wf-recorder,blueman,gammastep

and wofi GUI desktop launcher, and GUI wlogout bindkeys; see first post for bindkey details or view new .config/sway/config file.

Whilst wf-recorder will do screencasts per my earlier post viewtopic.php?p=100692#p100692
I haven't set up any sway config bindkey for that since still deciding what's best, but easy to do anyway.

[wiak]

Snapshot iso now available temporarily here (made in a hurry cos short of time, but worked in Ventoy for me, but no guarantees - my recommended remains 'build script frugal install method'):

See first post of thread for temporary download link (Mega nz)
size 912MiB since main sfs zstd compressed for better speed in use rather than using high-compression for small iso size...

I have things I still want to add to this, but no time to complete right now. Just left it with KLV-Airedale boot splash for now...

The newly released KLV-Swayland iso ( KLV_SwayBASE-002rc3.iso) has also been tested as booting and running well from Ventoy. Comes with Wayland Sway, labwc, pipewire, wofi, Waybar, Firefox and lots more.
Mod(Windows key)+d for wofi application launcher; Mod+Enter for quick sakura terminal; Mod+Shift+b for browser firefox; Mod+Shift+s for logout gui; Mod+Shift+q for close a window; Mod+mouse-right-button-drag to resize windows (tiled or otherwise); Mod+f for fullscreen window; Escape key to Cancel most things...

See first post of thread for more keybindings to do things prior to trying to use this!

==================================================
Apps include:

sway, labwc (which can be run in a tile with some app window started up inside using the likes of terminal command: labwc -s sakura &), which allows you to simultaneously experiment with labwc compositor (like a wayland openbox).
snappy,curl,wget,rsync,bash,vpm,light,chrony,NetworkManager,python3,mako,wofi,wmenu,lavalauncher,Waybar,dmenu,wev,wl-clipboard,wayclip,swaylock,swayidle,wlr-randr,wlsunset,wlogout,playctl,autotiling
pipewire,pavucontrol,ffmpeg,mpv
wayvnc,swappy,wlclock,grim,slurp,grimshot,maim
imv,lxtask,foot,sakura,geany,pcmanfm/gvfs,mtpaint,gsimplecal,ranger,nnn,git
galculator,firefox
file,wob,wdisplays,wf-recorder,blueman,gammastep

I've also included AppImage Manager (am --help for usage), which automates AppImage fetch along with desktop file (puts the AppImage into /opt hierarchy).
I use 'am' for cherrytree and libreoffice on my installation.
================================================

[wiak]

KLV_SwayBASE-002rc4.iso uploaded

Download links and usage (keybinds and so on) can be found at first post of this thread (or see immediately above post for quick summary).

Changes: Contains new skeleton FR initrd that includes a little extra exFAT support. You don't need to download this new iso if you already have a frugal installation; simply swap out the previous FR initrd (701rc1) for this new one in that scenario.

The new FR skeleton initrd itself hasn't been tested much, but can be downloaded from terminal with command:

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wget -c https://gitlab.com/firstrib/firstrib/-/raw/master/latest/build_system/initrd-latest.gz -O initrd.gz  # FR skeleton initrd

initrd-latest.gz is version="7.0.2"; revision="-rc1" Date: 23Oct2023
The associated w_init latest is dated the same, but no actual change otherwise in that file.

Of course, if you are downloading the new iso the new FR initrd is already included with it...

NOTE that this KLV-SwayBASE iso works well with Ventoy, including with save persistence in the arrangement described in this "Make Ventoy stick for KL" howto here: viewtopic.php?p=101793#p101793

I'll write an associate howto soon to show how to alternatively install this as a normal frugal installation on that same Ventoy stick, but for now, somewhat unsummarised details for doing that can be found here: viewtopic.php?p=100455#p100455