Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

The recent discussion on creating a friendlier Puppy motivated me to critically examine the remaster of fossapup64 9.5 that I install for others.

Overall Objective - provide new users with a version that minimizes the frustration of adopting a new operating system.

Include these components:
-a simplified desktop
-a simplified taskbar
-a background and theme that presents both style and tech. First impressions count.
Taking a cue from Microsoft, their last three Windows, 8, 10, and 11 were released with
a blue abstract looking wallpaper/theme. Probably not an accident. They likely spent a lot of
money and their marketing research found that blue themes rated highest in overall acceptance.
-Mainstream browser, easily updateable Poor web function is a deal breaker
-a list on the desktop of many installed applications along with a short description of function
-a launcher directory, Mydesk, on the desktop, containing the most common tools and applications
-detailed local howto/tutorials for the most common setup/operating task facing a new user

Project considerations:
The .doc format was chosen for the tutorial/howto files since it would be the easiest to create, edit, maintain or adapt to other Puppys. Libre Write was used to create the originals. In practice they open in Abiword. Although Abiword is known to have issues, in this case it is only being used as a viewer.

The tutorials intent is not to make the user a Puppy expert. Not to bombard them with five ways to do everything, but to give them ONE way, hopefully easy, to do a common task.

Edit: this paragraph added 12/10/21
This is the target user group criteria:
-Windows user, other Linux user, Mac user
-Beginner level skills
-Hardware is a 64bit, dual core cpu, 2gb ram, only one internal drive (if installing to internal drive)
-Can or knows someone who can create a bootable USB flash drive using Rufus or Unetbootin

For lack of a better name, it is Friendly-Fossa64 and like most of my remasters it is a work in progress. A friendlier Puppy for beginners. Hope you find it interesting or maybe it will provide ideas for others to make it even easier.

If you download the ISO be sure to read the next post to create a bootable USB.

friendly-fossa64-v1.0.iso see post on page 4 below for details
Download link:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/friend ... o/download

wizard

System Requirements: 64bit, dual core cpu, 2gb ram, only one internal drive (if installing to internal drive)

Create your bootable USB flash drive using one of these programs:
Windows – Unetbootin or Rufus (do not use the dd option)
NOTE: Use Rufus v3.17 portable from here https://www.fosshub.com/Rufus-old.html
Linux – Unetbootin
Puppy Linux - Stickpup or Unetbootin

Unetbootin 702 was used in testing.

Any of these programs will make a bootable USB that will also allow you to place your save file (saves session changes) on it and include the extra files from the iso to the USB.

NOTE: below not required in rc3 and newer
If you use Stickpup, after the USB is created, you have to mount (open) the iso file and manually copy these items to the USB:
download
firefox_x64
Copy_Firefox.sh
LICK-1.3.4-win32.exe

The .doc format was chosen for the tutorial/howto files since it would be the easiest to create, edit, maintain or adapt to other Puppys.

This went round and round in the early days of Puppy. What format to use.

If you look in the /usr/share/doc of a standard official Puppy.
You will see a lot of .html or .htm or .txt formats being used.

The .txt format is easy to understand. About anything can read a .txt format.

The .html and .htm are to be able to have clickable links to other files or web sites for more info.
If a web browser is in the Puppy version, all that is needed to read them.
Example:
/usr/share/doc/index.html

This one to have as default home page for the browser.
/usr/share/doc/home.htm
All clickable links to different web sites.
.

This may be a good place to present some of your ideas.
viewtopic.php?t=4525

wizard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:24 pm

The recent discussion on creating a friendlier Puppy motivated me to critically examine the remaster of fossapup64 9.5 that I install for others.

Overall Objective - provide new users with a version that minimizes the frustration of adopting a new operating system.

Include these components:
-a simplified desktop
-a simplified taskbar
-a background and theme that presents both style and tech. First impressions count.
Taking a cue from Microsoft, their last three Windows, 8, 10, and 11 were released with
a blue abstract looking wallpaper/theme. Probably not an accident. They likely spent a lot of
money and their marketing research found that blue themes rated highest in overall acceptance.
-Mainstream browser, easily updateable Poor web function is a deal breaker
-a list on the desktop of many installed applications along with a short description of function
-a launcher directory, Mydesk, on the desktop, containing the most common tools and applications
-detailed local howto/tutorials for the most common setup/operating task facing a new user ......

Congratulations! I think the same way you do. I do the same with the distros I use. The puppy and its various versions and derivatives are the best systems, in my opinion. But I always thought that the appearance lacked a bit of finishing. Image is worth a thousand words. It's what makes a system popular and well-accepted. I currently have Vanilla Dpup64, FatDog64-812, Bionicpup32 and Slacko64-8.2.1 installed. Each with its "inner beauty" and great functionality. This remastering of your fossapup64 9.5 is very attractive, very good!

wizard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:24 pm

Overall Objective - provide new users with a version that minimizes the frustration of adopting a new operating system.......
-detailed local howto/tutorials for the most common setup/operating task facing a new user

The tutorials intent is not to make the user a Puppy expert. Not to bombard them with five ways to do everything, but to give them ONE way, hopefully easy, to do a common task.

good objectives, seems like the forum is full of "five ways". especially confusing for the first timers working from within windows. perhaps you could package lick and what ever other tools within the iso.

so, a windows user could
-- open the iso in windows and drag a folder with the tools and instructions to the desk top
-- close the iso and install to USB
-- boot USB, open browser and find links to the pages with all the other ways it could have been done :D

@williwaw

Thanks for the suggestions, will have to give it some more thought. If you read the second post you'll see that Lick is included in the ISO. Right now things depend on the user creating a USB using one of the methods in post #2. Once they boot from that the howto/tutorials should get them up and running. Try doing an install for yourself, would be interested in your comments.

wizard

wizard wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:03 am

@williwaw

Thanks for the suggestions, will have to give it some more thought. If you read the second post you'll see that Lick is included in the ISO. Right now things depend on the user creating a USB using one of the methods in post #2. Once they boot from that the howto/tutorials should get them up and running. Try doing an install for yourself, would be interested in your comments.

wizard

lol, I see now the lick is an .exe. Stickpup method in post #2 was for an install from linux? I must have been speed reading past the items.

will download when I get near a real internet connection and maybe even see if I still have a windows that will boot. might be a few days though....

wizard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:24 pm

For lack of a better name, it is Friendly-Fossa64 and like most of my remasters it is a work in progress. A friendlier Puppy for beginners. Hope you find it interesting or maybe it will provide ideas for others to make it even easier.
If you download the ISO be sure to read the next post to create a bootable USB.

Very nice.
So far i have just manually installed it the old puppy way (no save file) - so missing out on the additional ff stuff - but it's running nicely using the inbuilt Palemoon and a vivaldi portable.

@greengeek

Give it a try with a save file, Firefox is stored in /mnt/home and it's cache and download directory are there too so no space is used in the save file. The standard update routine works, but is blocked by default to eliminate the annoying popup messages. When you want to update you just click an icon that runs a script to unblock. You'll find the script icon and instructions in HELP START HERE.

Thanks
wizard

@williwaw

This is the target user group criteria:
-Windows user, other Linux user, Mac user
-Beginner level skills
-Hardware is a 64bit, dual core cpu, 2gb ram, only one internal drive (if installing to internal drive)
-Can or knows someone who can create a bootable USB flash drive using Rufus or Unetbootin

In terms of hardware this covers computers made from 2005-present and along with the other criteria probably represents the largest single population of users.

While building Friendly-Fossa64 I had to continually revisit the criteria to stay on target and minimize feature creep.

One of the unique features of Puppy Linux is the number of options to run or install it. I know of no other Linux that matches that. That feature alone produces a massive decision tree, to eliminate that I set the above criteria

Your suggestion to allow the user to extract instructions and tools directly from the ISO is a good one. In practice it is outside of the Beginner level skills criteria. The hardware criteria would encompass Win XP through Win 11 and not all of those would include an application that would open an ISO. Last, it would require an additional volume of howto documentation outside the ISO.

With new users, it's probably important to try and make it as simple as possible to get started. Friendly_Fossa64, as it stands now, depends on the user creating the bootable USB.

Right now the simplified getting started instructions are: Make a bootable USB

Thanks
wizard

Hi wizard,

Yesterday I downloaded your friendly-fossa64-rc1.iso. As I only had existing USB or SD Cards, I manually set up a new install. After first boot I did more than I usually do before rebooting, so it had more changes than I normally like to do before making a save folder.

On reboot it wouldn't boot, got an error regarding adding hid_sensors to probe. As I had spent a bit of time setting up, I left it until today to see why it wouldn't boot. Today I first tried to boot by adding pfix=ram to the grub.cfg. I still got the same error. The only remaining thing, left was the fossapup64initmodules.txt file which is created. I renamed this file, so it wasn't used at boot. The laptop booted successfully. The fossapup64initmodules,txt is used to load the modules required for the touchscreen to work. The file not being present when booting, doesn't appear to effect the touch screen working. So all appears fine now.

I like the wallpaper you have chosen, but as one of your goals is aesthetics, the alignment and spacing of the icons on the desktop needs some work, as it looks a bit haphazard. When I set up my installs I remove most icons, I generally only have trash and drive icons and include additional tray/s for launchers.

It would have been nice if you had updated the palemoon version to a more current version. As this is an rc1 version, hopefully subsequent versions will have an updated browser.

As I did my setup manually, your script wouldn't work for me as I wasn't using sdb1, I did the copy/moves manually. I may have done something wrong, as I can't get firefox to run, getting a profile missing unreadable error. On checking it looks like it's set up correctly. I've had these profile errors in the past, when copying profiles or parts of profiles from one install to another or changing from root to spot. I'll have to do some more investigations to get it working.

So far it's nice for a first go. I have only had a quick look through you help files, but they look very well done. The work you have put in on them shows. Nice job.

Edit: You have a script in the .iso ff-211208-rebuid which is just an empty file. As it is confusing to have this file, maybe it should be removed.

Hi Terry, thanks for the feedback. Not sure on the booting issue, and not familiar with the fossapup64initmodules.txt file since it is not in any of my installs. Regarding the icons, that's mostly a subjective call and with new users you don't want to many or to few. Easy to change to suit.

I didn't think about updating Palemoon and will look at what impact it will have on ISO size. Keep in mind that Firefox is meant to be the default browser in line with the objectives on the first post and the target user criteria on the first post on this page. Advanced users like you should be able to do a manual install with Firefox working if you do the following:
-create a save file
-copy the download and firefox_x64 directories from the ISO to /mnt/home

The file ff-211208-rebuid is not a script and is just an empty file that is a build reference
I use. I'm not sure new users will be concerned about it, could be wrong.

Thanks again
wizard

wizard wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:21 pm

The file ff-211208-rebuid is not a script and is just an empty file that is a build reference
I use. I'm not sure new users will be concerned about it, could be wrong.

When you view the iso in rox, it has the script icon rather than just a file icon, that was the issue. Checked the properties, it has the executable attributes checked.

Thanks again Terry, my listening skills slipped on that one, has been fixed.

wizard

I downloaded the iso to my 64GB flash drive that I have dedicated to being a "Pentoy Drive". Theron I have quite a few Puppies, and other distros, to try out. May I complement you on what you've done so far? What little I "played with", is very nice, and I'm hoping you continue with it. Thanks very much for posting it.

Thanks tosim, all the credit goes to @666philb and our other developers who have evolved Puppy to where it is today. All I do is try to fill in a few "low spots" to help users.

wizard

2 random thoughts.

1. There is too much stuff in the menu for it to be useful unless you already know where everything is. Something searchable like xfce application searcher or xlunch is a lot more useful, or even just a link to /usr/shared/applications.

2. A long time ago, in Lupu 5.28, smokey01 did an indexed help package using Notecase that was linked to all the applications.

It's PH101-001.pet at http://www.smokey01.com/software/help/PH101-001.pet. You can run it if you install notecase and see how it's set up.

Taking a cue from Microsoft, their last three Windows, 8, 10, and 11 were released with
a blue abstract looking wallpaper/theme. Probably not an accident. They likely spent a lot of
money and their marketing research found that blue themes rated highest in overall acceptance.

Just a few thoughts on this from someone with serious color-temperature based light sensitivity:

Blue light has been shown to "wake up" the brain. This could be a reason Windows, used by corporations with employees all over the world, went with a blue theme. It's like force feeding the wage-slaves a stimulant made of light.

It can also damage skin, cause night blindness, reduce the ability to see contrast, and cause macular degeneration.

So is Microsoft doing this because people like it, or because it keeps them awake and draws them to screens like moths to a flame?
Some citations:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31418890/

2018 piece of research from the University of Toledo in the US suggests some worrying links between artificial blue light exposure and permanent eye damage. In fact, they concluded that this kind of repeated exposure actually causes the eye to attack itself. It’s to do with what’s called ‘retinal’; teeny molecules that sense light and trigger signals to the brain. “You need a continuous supply of retinal molecules if you want to see”, says Dr. Ajith Karunarathne, Assistant Professor in the University’s Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry. Through lab experiments, Dr. Karunarathne and his team found that blue light exposure causes those retinal to trigger reactions that actually generate poisonous chemical molecules in the eye. “It’s toxic”, adds fellow researcher Kasun Ratnayake. “If you shine blue light on retinal, it kills photoreceptor cells as the signaling molecule on the membrane dissolves.” What’s worse, like a Harvey Norman deal, when they’re gone, they’re gone. “Photoreceptor cells do not regenerate in the eye. When they’re dead, they’re dead for good.”

-https://ambreyewear.com/pages/does-blue ... -blindness

@hundido

Just for reference, quote taken from the first cited link above.

blue light at 410 nm

from
https://answerstoall.com/popular/what-c ... of-410-nm/

What color has a wavelength of 410 nm?

Violet light

wizard

@dancytron

Fossa64 9.5 has notecase installed so installed PH101-001.pet in it too to check it out, looks very useful, only problem was the PPM could not uninstall PH101-001.pet, strange. You are right about to much stuff in the menu, the Programs Installed document on the desktop partially addresses that. Also @mikeslr suggested including AppFinder, which looks very good and will be included in the next release. It should help clarify the menu items as you suggested, and is much easier to implement.

Thanks
wizard

All that's in the pet is the notecase file and a .desktop file, so there really isn't much to uninstall.

hundido wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:06 pm

Blue light has been shown to "wake up" the brain. This could be a reason Windows, used by corporations with employees all over the world, went with a blue theme. It's like force feeding the wage-slaves a stimulant made of light.

So is Microsoft doing this because people like it, or because it keeps them awake and draws them to screens like moths to a flame?

I think that very few users of Windows use the default wallpaper.
I observed that most people change it to something else according to what they like.
IMO, Microsoft's strategy is to show an attractive wallpaper primarily for the first impression.

wizard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:24 pm

discussion on creating a friendlier ...
Overall Objective - provide new users with a version that minimizes the frustration ...

I want to take a moment to comment on this forum member's opening post (OP).

It describe exactly as what I believe is the greatest approach in attracting new PUP-DOG tire-kickers/converts to both the forum and participation in the various project seen across the forum.

I have downloaded merely the ISO file and booted it directly using SG2D and have tested booting it in a QEMU via its GUI.

Excellent in the idea, the ideal, thoughtful packaging, and the approach tailoring current PUP-DOG technologies from the PUP-DOG developers.

This is another example of a forum member making it all too easy and friendly for people to "fall" for Puppy Linux

Friendly Fossa64 rc2 is now available, see the first post for the link.

Notable changes include:
-Textmaker replaces Abiword
-Palemoon is updated to 29.4.2
-added Appfinder, which list all the installed applications (that have a .desktop file) along with
a short description of their function.
-added Simple_Restore as a compliment to Simple_Backup
-added howto make two line icon labels for desktop icons
-added howto fix low sound volume

Thanks to all who made suggestions.

wizard

Hi wizard,

About 'simplifying the Menu'. You may want to take a look at radky's JWMDesk and PupControl.

I haven't gone that far. But I think using those two almost all configuration applications currently filling up the Menu can be toggled-off (Menu>Setup>Menu Manager --another of radky's applications). Maybe only one: PupControl. It's Settings>Window Manager Settings open JWMDesk. It's Desktop>Menu Manager opens Menu Manager; Menu Update just updates the menu for when a new application has been installed.

The result would be for a JWM-Rox system something as intuitive as xfce's configuration GUIs and as modern-looking as that which LinuxMint presents to its users.

Maybe reach out to radky if you can think of anything which might improve the above. For example, PupControl is 'all incompassing'. It not only provides controls for settings, it also will open some applications; and a User can add eight 'favorite applications' not 'built-into' a Puppy to "My Panel". On the one hand, it could be simplified to just manage hardware and settings. On the other, some of its defaults applications may be obsolete while newer Puppys may have 'built-in' applications it doesn't handle OOTB.

@mikeslr

I'm a fan of radky's work, ran his dpup stretch 7.5 as daily driver for a couple of years, still have it running on 3 machines. He's authored some big improvements in Puppy's configuration programs including the ones you listed. Sure easier than editeding the files in geany. When I start back on this project I'll look at your suggestions.

Thanks
wizard

Friendly Fossa64 rc3 is now available, see the first post for the link.

Notable changes include:
-ISO reduced to 606mb
-Firefox now integrated in main puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs file and updatable.
-Textmaker removed as it had compatibilty problems with .doc files
-Abiword added back
-Palemoon is updated to 29.4.4
-Help files now cover both save files and folders
-added Install to Bootable USB.doc to help files
-Simple_Restore and Simple_Backup now cover both save files and folders

Thanks to all who made suggestions.

wizard

@wizard Please be advised THERE IS NO LINK pg1 nor pg3 given for rc3.

@tosim

Yup, had a hiccup and had to re-upload, should be good now.

Thanks
wizard