Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

'lo again, all... and apologies if this is in the wrong place; no doubt, our friendly neighbourhood moderators will take care of it for me...

I'm having issues with how some wireless networking USB dongles are working (or not).

I've had a look around the forums and elsewhere but I'm still not sure about how to approach the problem... or what information is necessary.

I did find a bit of a discussion (see viewtopic.php?p=35964 ) and that helped me create a script that indicates the sort of troubles I'm having.

In short, when I use some wireless dongles, the available networks are what I expect to see. However, if I use other dongles, I see mostly totally different networks; some of the networks found by the first dongle appear again when using the 2nd dongle and some don't. I don't think there's anything special about 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands - they're all affected in the same way.

The bash script I use to create the 'available networks' lists is here:

#!/bin/sh
#  Trying to work out why the wireless dongles misbehave (for the upteenth time)...
#  jjg, 22-Oct-2023
#  Ref: https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?p=35964&hilit=nmcli#p35964
#

echo Setting-Up...
killall wpa_supplicant
sleep 2

cat > /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf << EOF
ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
update_config=1
country=US
EOF

wpa_supplicant -B -i wlan0 -c /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
wpa_cli add_network
wpa_cli set_network 0 ssid '"Channel2B"'
wpa_cli set_network 0 key_mgmt NONE
wpa_cli enable_network 0
sleep 2

echo Scanning...
wpa_cli scan
sleep 2

echo Scan results...
wpa_cli scan_results | sed -r 's/^[^\t]+\t/--masked--\t/'

exit

# [eof]

I generally start a live USB session (no save file) of Xenialpup64 7.5 (or most any contemporary 64-bit variant) and after going through the normal initial setup, I then go through the 'Network Wizard' process. I reboot with a 'new session' and a different wireless dongle and go through the same process again.

The attached files show some basic information from Pup Sys-Info and ifconfig, as well as the output from the above script.

The router I'm using is a 'Gen 2' Arcadyan LH1000, Firmware 0.19.07r and it's connected to (Australia's) NBN via Telstra's HFC (Hybrid Fibre Coaxial) cable+fibre network.

The currently 'working' dongle (noname Micro USB WiFi adpater) gives download speeds around 1-2 MBps and the currently 'non-working' dongle (TP-LINK TL-WN721N USB WiFi Adapter) gives closer to 4-5 MBps when it's working well. Another PC (running Xenialpup64 7.5) with its own (Netgear N150 WiFi USB adapter) dongle (which sometimes has the same troubles) is currently running at about 1 MBps. A PC with an (RJ45) Ethernet direct connection into the router runs at about 5.5-6.5 MBps. Note: The download speeds are determined by downloading a ~200MB file from the Aarnet mirror (http://ftp.aarnet.edu.au/pub/puppylinux/) using wget.

This has been happening for some years.. and is sending me 'round the twist. Rebooting (and/or power cycling) the router (even more than once) doesn't fix things... but at some stage, some magic happens and things will go back to normal.. but that may take months. In the meantime, I juggle dongles so I can somehow connect to my local network.

If there's a troubleshooter script.. or some other way to see what's going bung, I'd appreciate some help...

Fanx!

I would try to place the router in a different location.

The biggest issue with WIFI is signal interference.

All Kinds of things in a house can affect it.

Location of the router and location of the WIFI adapter in the house.

Example:
My WIFI router is placed on a shelf about 5 ft. above my Internet service provided Ethernet router. (this is basically on the floor)
The WIFI router is supplied input by a Ethernet cable.
The WIFI router is sending out a 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz signal.

If any WIFI adapters are located in the same room.
Signals are strong and very good.

5Ghz signal will provide more speed, but more stuff affects signal.

2.4Ghz always has the strongest signal. (expected lower frequencies always travel farther than higher frequencies and are less affected by stuff)

I have a computer in an upstairs room.
It uses a USB connected WIFI adapter plugged into a stand with a 6 ft. USB cable plugged into my computer.
I can move this stand to different locations on the computer desk and the WIFI signal will change from very good to very bad. (not that much location change needed)
In looking for best location and signal speed.
I have found placing the adapter directly behind and the right side of the monitor gives best signal, and speed.
I think the signal is deflected from the back of the monitor.
Here I use 2.4Ghz signal it gives best results.

5Ghz signal works, but is sometimes weak or cuts out, and always registers weaker than the 2.4Ghz.

Another big issue is WIFI channel interference by more than one WIFI signal on the same channel.
All those other WIFI signals in your area that are not you.
Big issue with 2.4Ghz, because it has a small number of channels to use.

Some more info:
viewtopic.php?t=6529

@ozboomer - since this is a long-term problem for you, may be worth you trying F96CE-4 see: viewtopic.php?p=85882#p85882
No promises, but the included connman auto wireless app may solve your issues. Give it 5-10 sec to detect your adaptor & then click on the taskbar icon, select access point & add password.

Fanx! for the suggestions so far...

I've tried a few things and have found both dongles exhibit the same crazy behaviour when I do the following:

• As the router's location is fixed (owing to the NBN point's location), I took the PC and its dongles to be within a metre or two of the router... although, the speed is better (with the working dongle), as expected

• ...changing the channel on the router;

• ...changing to the 5 GHz band rather than the 2.4 GHz band; this is not normally an option I would try... but after @bigpup's suggestion, I tried it anyway.. and observed similar behaviour around the signal stability but no difference in which dongle worked or not

• ...changing to the F96-CE-4 distribution

Sidebar: Ooooo, F96-CE is looking and working very nicely; I have yet to try out everything I would use (Heck, I haven't done that yet with Fossapup64 9.5(!))... but it might be an even better distro; I'm having issues starting 'X' with F95 on a couple of PCs... thinks ...

Something that caused different behaviour in the dongles, however... My house network is via Telstra and is a 50 Mbps service. I have my mobile phone with Dodo (Optus) and that seems to run (nominally, pm peak) at ~20 Mbps. If I set-up a hotspot on the phone and tether to it (wirelessly, that is)... using either the 'working' dongle OR the 'non-working' dongle, I can see the hotspot and connect to it in both cases. That would seem to indicate the issue may be with the router... I think?

The router has a button to enable/disable the wireless... and in one episode of this craziness with the dongles, toggling the wireless on the router did make both dongles work again... but that hasn't happened this time around, with or without rebooting the router and/or changing channels and/or bands.

So, maybe that brings up a path to follow....

Just had to mention in passing...

bigpup wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 7:42 am

I have found placing the adapter directly behind and the right side of the monitor gives best signal, and speed.

In the earliest days of WiFi, I remember making a 'reflector' from a slim CD-case, lined with aluminium foil... pointed it to the router's location... and placed the dongle at the 'focus' point.. and that made a significant difference to perceived signal strength and stability...

... but that's not really going to make any difference here...

...The investigations continue...

Bought a no name China dongle last week. Neither SNS nor Frisbee could find the correct driver module. Had to set it up with Dougal's Network Wizard. Last mentioned is probably the hardest to set up my hidden network but it does work well once you get it right.

Always remember that ALL wifi is RADIO. Different 'dongles' have different antennae schemes. There are a thousand things that can affect radio. Even where you sit or move around in a room. Density of nearby WAPs and transmission stations can also affect you.

Worth noting; When you use a fixed wifi profile to connect to your wap, you'll have better success than you get when you scan. also use the 'nl80211' driver for wpa_supplicant instead of 'wext'.

More nonsense... but maybe there's something 'telling' in this to those more knowledgeable...

I tried investigating these crazy USB WiFi interfaces again. Up until today, the same behaviour as originally mentioned in the first post continued, no change.

Then, I started Fossapup64 9.5 without a save file. As it was going through its normal startup, once we'd got into 'X', the 'first setup' dialog came up, as usual (see Menu > Setup > QuickSetup first-run settings).

I first started using Fossapup64 9.5 in later 2022 and never used the "CRD:" option... and although I knew about it in this current round of wireless nonsense, I didn't do anything with it (I didn't need it for the last year to be able to use the networks I needed to use when using the TP-Link dongle, so why should I need to do anything now?)...

...but this arvo, I changed the normal "00 UNSET" to "AU Australia" and let it go through to the 'secondary' dialog. I went through the 'Network Wizard' to set-up the network, as I normally would... and the previously unavailable networks were now available. So, I went through, connected to my network and set-up things... and the speed was what used to be normal with this dongle, being ~5-6 MBps download speed.

To check it wasn't a fluke (which it probably really is), I power-cycled through it all again: Fossa, with no save file and DIDN'T SET the "CRD:" option this time (it remained at "00 UNSET"). I went through the 'Network Wizard' again and the networks I was expecting to see were there again. 'Fixed', you'd think... but oh noooo....

Rebooting first into Slacko 6.3.2 with no save file and the same dongle... and this time, no sign of the networks I want to use. I power-cycled the PC and tried again.. and no joy. I rebooted into Fossa with no save file... went through the 'Netwrok Wizard' again... and yup, the networks are there and available.

Note that in all of this, the TP-Link dongle is still using the ath9k_htc driver/module, in all of the distributions.

I must've gone through about 10 boots/power-cycles each for Slacko 6.3.2, Xenialpup64 7.5 and Fossapup64 9.5 and the only time the networks were visible with this dongle were with Fossa, whether there was a save file in use or not... when the networks weren't available at all using this dongle right up to this afternoon.

Also, when I booted the PC into Windows 10 Pro after 'the magic', it also recognized the networks using this dongle... and connected at the 'good' speeds. Up until today, with this same dongle, the networks weren't seen from Windows when the dongle went 'bung'.

One other thing that I didn't mention before.. The router is currently set-up to use SMB v1 (I can't use SMB 2.x for some Android apps I use)... but I don't know if that affects 'network discovery'. Sure, with actually using Windows/SAMBA shares, there might be issues... but we don't really get that far.

So, I'm keeping the dongle installed and only using Fossa for now... but the understanding of what is going on is still not there.. and I really don't know how to analyze the problem... 'coz I know this will go 'universally crazy' again at some unpredictable time...

...'tis SUCH a puzzlement...

What specific network connection program are you using?
SNS?
Frisbee?
Network Wizard?

The following console command will display all detected WAP's, bypassing the various connection apps. This will show the raw output of what WIFI linux can see.
Change the 'wlan0' to match your specific wifi adapter.

iwlist wlan0 scanning | egrep 'Cell |Quality|ESSID'

This is useful to isolate hardware problems from software problems.

The next episode in the saga...

Things have been mostly stable for a while... but TheProblem(tm) is still around.

Over the last month, I've been rebooting the router once or twice a week.. but just this past couple of days, the problem has been 'on' again, where ANY of the wireless devices can only see certain networks, none of which are mine. I tried rebooting the router when it first occurred... but it didn't' change anything, whether it was a 'software reboot' or a 'power cycle reboot'. That was what.. Friday. So, I've been using the mobile phone hotspot for the last day or two.

Today, being Sunday, after I rebooted the router, my networks are again visible... so I really have no joy with understanding what the heck is going on here.

'In the dim, dark past', folks have reported... 'various problems'... with the 'Arcadyan LH1000 Gen 2' router, which was issued by Telstra when I was forced onto our NBN here in Oz... but I didn't have any of the troubles folks were reporting.

As I'm in the process of transitioning to a new PC, I wonder if it might be time to dump the router and try another one...? ...or perhaps that's too drastic a step, I don't know.

It's just dashed annoying to never know whether the network is going to work any time I turn on a PC or something... and 'regularly rebooting' a device is NOT a solution, IMO...

grumpy

I wonder if it might be time to dump the router and try another one...? .

I had a old router going bad that I rebooted everyday sometimes more than that as it would just stop working.
One day it just died so I replaced it... might be time for a new one.

Just my opinion.

I agree, it is time to get a new router.

Everything you say about the router, is classic symptoms of it going bad.

They do sometimes, provide updates to the routers firmware, for fixing issues, but that is usually done automatically by the router itself.

Could access the routers setup and see if it has an option to check for updates.

No piece of electronic hardware, will last for ever.

If the input to your WIFI router is supplied by some type of cable. (usually a Ethernet cable)
Could try using a replacement cable.
Check the connection points for bent, dirty, etc... connection contacts.
Cables will go bad and show no outward indication, except problems with them working correctly.

Appreciate the suggestions.. and I'll try the cable things, f'sure...

...but this router is maybe 4 years old. Is that 'old' for a router? There's also this NBN 'modem' gadget, that I have no knowledge about, that brings 'the internet' into the house, so I don't know what magic is going on with it; tha's prolly more of a thing that local Oz-based folks who are having to deal with the NBN may have some idea about..

Still, it seems funny that the router is... 'publishing'... its own (wireless) network erratically in such a way that other devices can or cannot see it... If I get another router, I'll probably need something special (maybe?) to hook into this crazy NBN modem, which further complicates the issue.

Another facet of this: Windoze (Win 8.x, Win 10, Win 11) also has the same problem (not seeing networks consistently).. and it doesn't make any difference with different channels... but I don't have any 5GHz wireless adapters, so I'm still basically stuck to the 2.4GHz channels... and the wireless signal is going through timber walls.. so maybe it's also just interference (but not really, as the problem exists with wireless adapters a metre or less from the router)...

I haven't had so much networking trouble since the terminal servers (befrore DECservers) connected to our main VAXcluster randomly spat the dummy multiple times every day for a few months (and that ended up being dodgy thickwire Ethernet cable)....

The age of the hardware has nothing to do with when it will fail or start going bad.

It can happen at any time.

Do hope it will work OK for a few years or more.

First rule of manufacturing.
If you build it so it never brakes.
They will only buy it one time!

The NBN modem that is providing the Internet connection.
If it is using a normal Ethernet cable connection to connect to your WIFI router. (that is usually how it is done)
Ethernet Cable from output port of the modem to the input port of the WIFI router.

To see if it is providing a good Internet connection.
You can directly connect it to the computer, with an Ethernet cable from the NBN modem output Ethernet port, to the computer.
Setup the computers network connection for wired connection not WIFI.
See what you get over wired connection directly from the NBN modem to the computer.
A laptop computer is easy to do this with.
For a desktop computer it will need to be placed close enough to the NBN modem for the Ethernet cable to reach.

If this works OK.

You know for sure it is the WIFI router going bad.

If this is also not working OK.
Then you proved something is wrong with the NBN modem or the Ethernet cable.

heh... buying one unit? Naaah... 'tis called 'planned obsolescence'

Still, thanks for the troubleshooting thoughts, @bigpup ... only trouble is TheProblem(tm) is totally erratic (it was prolly 3+ weeks since the problem last appeared and then it went.. and appeared again within a day or two) and appears to be a WiFi issue; when my network goes invisible on WiFi, the directly connected laptop/desktops all work quite Ok... Thinking about it again, the modem is probably a red herring... Erk..

Except for the connection between the modem and the wall (which is a 'stiff' thinwire cable), all the wired connections are CAT% or CAT6 twisted pair cables... and seem to work Ok in various connections.

I don't know if there's anything in the router's diagnostics about the wireless that might provide some clues? I can't get my head around all the packets and protocols that might indicate something...

Eeep...

Well, it's been more-or-less a year .. and the CrazIneSs has been less present.. but it still happens sometimes.. and the last couple of days have been particularly annoying.

Consider these recent attempts when trying different Puppy variants on the same PC with the same USB WiFi adapter (Updated: 15-Oct-2024):

Xenialpup64 and Bionicpup64 almost always work reliably... bot not the last few days.

With yesterday and today, I made sure I didn't reboot the router, change the position of anything that could upset signal, etc.. there are maybe 30+ networks that my USB WiFi adapter can detect (none of which are mine right now)... and when things are working, the signals from those other networks are not particularly stronger than any of mine.

Previously through the year, I've tried things like static routing, different channels, bands, USB WiFi devices, using (or not using) different 'network extenders', even more Puppy variants... and when 'my network' gets into 'this mood', some of the Puppies just get grumpy and don't want to see my network.

I've tried searching out up-to-date drivers for some different USB WiFi devices... and have built/installed the drivers from source... and they don't work any differently. I'll be posting separately about what/how I can deal with that side of things...

I'd try going to a different router.. but there's some 'talk'/'accurate info'(??) that as the modem I have was supplied by Telstra (one of our national providers here in Oz), I am sort-of 'locked into' the device owing to the way the VOIP services work through the modem... and the Telstra 'upgrade' modem is largely reported to be garbage... I'd rather stick with the mostly un-broken connectivity... as these same computers work with my network Ok with Windoze & Android (ChromeOS is something I'm still arguing with Google about, 'coz they 'broke' it in May.. and my Chromebook keeps losing the network and randomly rebooting).

...trying not to go bananas...

Edit 15/10/24: Updated table

modem I have was supplied by Telstra

Getting the modem replaced is what I would do.
But you give reasons why you do not want to do that.

Hardware does not work forever.

If you have not done this.

I would completely remove power from the modem.
Wait 1 minute.
Power it up and reconnect to the WIFI signal it provides.
May help.

I do not know about your service provider.
But the one I use recycles all their hardware.
It supposedly gets repaired and put back in service.

That is why I use may own supplied modem.

bigpup wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 3:07 pm

modem I have was supplied by Telstra

Getting the modem replaced is what I would do.
But you give reasons why you do not want to do that.

Hardware does not work forever.

Mebbe... Although.. I know 'planned obsolescence' is a greater issue these days... but is 4 years too much to expect for a router to keep working? ...or is it that firmware updates and network reconfigurations (on the ISP's side) mean the definition of 'working' changes more frequently, thereby making 'breaking' the modem more likely...?

The fact that the connectivity does work for some Puppies and (currently) always works for Windows boots on the PC seems to say there's something else going on...

...but I guess networking has been doing my head in for decades, dammit...

Here is a suggestion. Take a spare computer and connect it to the router by ethernet. Use some software to turn the computer's wifi adapter into an access point. Connect other computers to it and check the stability.

rcrsn51 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 1:42 am

Here is a suggestion. Take a spare computer and connect it to the router by ethernet. Use some software to turn the computer's wifi adapter into an access point. Connect other computers to it and check the stability.

Ooooo.. more adventures in networking begin

Having never done this before.. and done a token search around.. it seems I need to get a handle on 'hostapd' and 'dnsmasq'...

'tis another reason I love our Puppies - Just a new boot.. create a basic savefile... install and configure... and my PROD installations are all safe as... Whizbang!

Well, this has been an adventure (as expected)...

First up, I tried the 'tethering' that is available in some of the Puppy variants... and it didn't work at all... probably 'coz I don't understand what it's trying to do.

I then went through some rigmarole of mucking about with 'hostapd' and 'dnsmasq'... and didn't get any further than hostapd constantly not working, although the various USB-based WiFi dongles I tried were mostly visible.. and could connect to the router (sometimes - the current troubles).. and my phone as a hotspot (mostly).

Then, with only having the 'spare computer' being connected (via cable) to the router and the 'eth0' variously being enabled/disabled, I was still getting the erratic behaviour of the last (almost a week) on the couple of other PCs and a couple of laptops with the USB WiFi dongles... and so it was all day...

...until about 7pm today.. when everything worked again (see the updated table; I hadn't rebooted the router, there was no power or network outages... but it was a warmer day outside, not so much inside, where the router and the computers are.

I guess it boils down to 'something' being erratically temperamental... 'n I'll just have to live with it... and not use the silly machines when things get 'grumpy...

You seem to think hardware will not go bad, until a set time period has passed.

Hardware can fail at any time for any reason.

If your issues are dependent on what version of Puppy Linux you are using.
That is basically the Puppy version does not have the needed drivers and firmware to fully support the WIFI hardware.
What software it does have, may need to be updated to a newer version of the driver and firmware, that runs the WIFI hardware.

In Puppy the best way to update is use a newer version of Puppy.

Especially the Linux kernel is constantly getting improved with each new version of it.
It is the main software that controls, interfaces, and runs all hardware.
Just changing the kernel can affect hardware operation.

But again, better to just use a newer version of Puppy that has a newer kernel.