Openbox on F96-CE?

[Luluc]

How is F96-CE different from Fossapup 95 and, more important, is someone here using Openbox/LXDE instead of JWM who can confirm it works without problems?

[mikeslr]

Puppys are 'binary compatible' to some distro: that is some of the binaries of that distro are used in the build and Puppys package manager has direct access to the repositories of its 'binary' compatible. For both Fossapup64 and F96, those are Ubuntu Fossa Focal's repositories. But Puppys are a 'snap-shot' of the binaries of its compatible at the time they are created/woofed. F96 is a later build. So any improvements, bug-fixes Ubuntu made may have been incorporated. F96's kernel will be newer. Also, F96 will include changes suggested by rockedge's experience with Fossapup64, is likely to include newer versions of applications specifically created for Puppys, and may include other changes which have been suggested by Fossapup64's fans.

My experience with both is that, at least in this case, "newer is better".

I know peebee publishes Openbox/Lxde addons. https://sourceforge.net/projects/lxpup/ ... LXDE-ydrv/. Haven't used them. So don't know if they work. But my experience 'upgrading' to F96 from Fossapup64 is that applications which worked in Fossapup64 will almost always work in F96.

Guessing: The latest one which I think applicable is named ydrv_fossapup64-sml_9.5.sfs. It would have to be renamed, and F96 already has a ydrv. So, I would name it adrv_fossapup64_9.6.sfs and try it. If satisfactory, I would then use Menu>Utilities>nicOS-Utilities-Suite's Save2SFS module to combine the new adrv and old ydrv into a new ydrv in order to still be able to use an adrv for other applications.

[Luluc]

Thanks.

More questions, if you don't mind:

1. Search for 'ydrv' found 1080 matches. Can you please tell me what a ydrv is?

2. I'm reading this
viewtopic.php?p=136037#p136037
and ran into this:

Palemoon via a DEB file installed just as you would a Puppy pet file, and chromium installed via SFS-Load. With these details in mind, you can get an idea of what added software you need and want.

I see people here talk a lot about pet and sfs files. I would rather avoid them. Can't I just install .deb packages from the Ubuntu repository? Or local .deb files with 'dpkg -i'? Do I have to use a DebianDog/UbuntuDog instead for that? How much of a walled garden is F96-CE?

This is also confusing:

So, your primary concern will probably be space on the internal drive, 8GB is not much to work with, as most of my frugal installs need a bit over 2GB just to "install", which in my case is nothing more than extracting the downloaded ISO file into its own directory. My primary daily driver, a version of S15Pup32 22.12 from 4/13/2024, currently occupies about 4.5GB with the only real added software being the LXDE desktop (via a ydrv.sfs from peebee) and 2 web browsers I use, Palemoon and ungoogled chromium.

The way he says it, sounds like the LXDE desktop takes about 2GB! I have LXDE on Debian, it's not that big! And LXDE-ydrv_dpupbw64_10.0.7.sfs on Sourceforge is only 16MB.

[mikeslr]

See, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 827#p55827 for 'How Puppy Works'. Rockedge refers to a ydrv as a 'patch' file. I think of both ydrv and advr as 'optional system files'. Functionally, they are identical, with adrv having priority: that is its contents will over-ride that of ydrv. Unlike applications you install --which are written to a SaveFile/Folder-- when present their contents are part of your operating system. If Puppy is booted from a USB-Key, after boot-up you can remove the Key and they are still functional. If booted from a hard-drive, the partition Puppy booted from is unmounted; Puppys operating entirely 'in RAM'.

As I mentioned, Puppys are 'snapshots' using some binaries of its 'binary-compatible' distro. Implied, "SOME, but not all". You can install 'debs' using Puppy Package Manager or --when present-- apt &/or synaptic. But all those Package Managers only know the libraries necessary for the 'binary-compatible'. Installation of debs may result in a non-functional application until you track down and install all required and missing libraries. Pets and SFSes are created by Puppy Devs to include all libraries the Puppy it is built for needs. SFSes have advantages over pets. Pets are installed over-writing the contents of your current system, perhaps breaking other applications. Uninstalling may not return you to the former condition. SFSes are not installed, merely mounted/loaded. You can unload them returning to your systems prior condition. A new version --say of firefox-- may not work as well as the old. If in SFS format, the old SFS remains available until you choose to delete it. So you can unload the new and reload the old.
The same is true of Appimages and can be true of portables if you backup the old before updating. You'll find many SFSes, portables, and links to AppImages on the Additional Software SubForum, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewforum.php?f=7 which FossaPup64 and F96 can use especially most on Mikewalsh's list https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 734#p48734. SFSes, AppImages and Portables also have this advantage over installing either pets or debs: When not in use little to no RAM is required, only sufficient to create Menu-entries if desired.

Yes, the section you quoted is confusing. F96's ISO is 538 Mbs, which deployed will require about that much space on a hard-drive/USB-Key. IIRC, peebees Lxde SFS was about 17Mbs. So figure a total of 555 Mbs. The other things you add will, of course, require more 'storage' space. Pets and debs are 'compressed' files. When you install them [into your SaveFile/Folder] they decompress requiring 2-to-3 times the amount of space, depending on what compression system was employed. SFSes are compressed, and remain so. AppImages are also compressed and remain so. One of the largest AppImages LibreOffice --mikewalsh's portable includes it-- is 262 Mbs. On the other hand, some portables are created by first decompressing a 'deb' or tar.gz. So while firefox's deb or pet download size is about 130, whether installed into a SaveFile/Folder or repackaged as a portable, it will require about 400 Mbs of Storage even before you install Addons. My fleshed out firefox portable occupies over 600 Mbs of Storage.

Keep in mind that installing applications into 'Major distros' also involves 'decompressing' such applications published as 'debs' or similar. So while the base storage space for F96 is about 555 Mbs and a fully 'fleshed out' with ALL your desired applications may take up '8 Gbs', expect to need at least 25 Gbs for Ubuntu Focal Fossa, https://linuxconfig.org/ubuntu-20-04-sy ... quirements

[Wiz57]

Thanks.

More questions, if you don't mind:

1. Search for 'ydrv' found 1080 matches. Can you please tell me what a ydrv is?

2. I'm reading this
viewtopic.php?p=136037#p136037
and ran into this:

Palemoon via a DEB file installed just as you would a Puppy pet file, and chromium installed via SFS-Load. With these details in mind, you can get an idea of what added software you need and want.

I see people here talk a lot about pet and sfs files. I would rather avoid them. Can't I just install .deb packages from the Ubuntu repository? Or local .deb files with 'dpkg -i'? Do I have to use a DebianDog/UbuntuDog instead for that? How much of a walled garden is F96-CE?

This is also confusing:

So, your primary concern will probably be space on the internal drive, 8GB is not much to work with, as most of my frugal installs need a bit over 2GB just to "install", which in my case is nothing more than extracting the downloaded ISO file into its own directory. My primary daily driver, a version of S15Pup32 22.12 from 4/13/2024, currently occupies about 4.5GB with the only real added software being the LXDE desktop (via a ydrv.sfs from peebee) and 2 web browsers I use, Palemoon and ungoogled chromium.

The way he says it, sounds like the LXDE desktop takes about 2GB! I have LXDE on Debian, it's not that big! And LXDE-ydrv_dpupbw64_10.0.7.sfs on Sourceforge is only 16MB.

It appears you misunderstood...I was talking about the TOTAL size on my HDD for my S15Pup32 w/LXDE,
not just LXDE itself! A bit over 2GB then add the savefile used, it is about 4.5GB. I install Palemoon via
a DEB file, just like installing a DEB file in Debian/Ubuntu etc. Just click on it with your file manager and
it will prompt you to install it. My ydrv.sfs for LXDE is about 15 MB. I don't load the adrv.sfs included
in the ISO, since I don't use the Light web browser and that is what peebee uses the adrv for in his
WoofCE pups. I load ungoogled chromium via a SFS file because this way, if I don't need it I can leave
it unloaded and it doesn't occupy RAM unnecessarily, then if needed I can use SFS-Load to fire it up.
Then when finished with it, if I want, I can use SFS-Load to "unload" the SFS, reclaiming RAM. I only
have 1 gb RAM on this Acer Aspire One AOA150, so I have to watch RAM usage.

[Luluc]

So while the base storage space for F96 is about 555 Mbs and a fully 'fleshed out' with ALL your desired applications may take up '8 Gbs', expect to need at least 25 Gbs for Ubuntu Focal Fossa, https://linuxconfig.org/ubuntu-20-04-sy ... quirements

That much? I have FossaDog with many applications and my 01-filesystem.squashfs file is just 1.1GB.

I load ungoogled chromium via a SFS file because this way, if I don't need it I can leave
it unloaded and it doesn't occupy RAM unnecessarily, then if needed I can use SFS-Load to fire it up. Then when finished with it, if I want, I can use SFS-Load to "unload" the SFS, reclaiming RAM. I only have 1 gb RAM on this Acer Aspire One AOA150, so I have to watch RAM usage.

Oh, so everything outside of SFS files is kept in RAM? So the entire save file is loaded into RAM? So if I have 4GB of RAM, I suppose my save file can't be larger than that. Actually much less because it's going to expand before going into RAM. Is that correct?

[Wiz57]

So while the base storage space for F96 is about 555 Mbs and a fully 'fleshed out' with ALL your desired applications may take up '8 Gbs', expect to need at least 25 Gbs for Ubuntu Focal Fossa, https://linuxconfig.org/ubuntu-20-04-sy ... quirements

That much? I have FossaDog with many applications and my 01-filesystem.squashfs file is just 1.1GB.

I load ungoogled chromium via a SFS file because this way, if I don't need it I can leave
it unloaded and it doesn't occupy RAM unnecessarily, then if needed I can use SFS-Load to fire it up. Then when finished with it, if I want, I can use SFS-Load to "unload" the SFS, reclaiming RAM. I only have 1 gb RAM on this Acer Aspire One AOA150, so I have to watch RAM usage.

Oh, so everything outside of SFS files is kept in RAM? So the entire save file is loaded into RAM? So if I have 4GB of RAM, I suppose my save file can't be larger than that. Actually much less because it's going to expand before going into RAM. Is that correct?

The only parts of your save that go into RAM are the parts needed by the OS, most everything is loaded
as a sort of "pointer" to where it is actually located. My savefile is 4GB but I've only used a tad over 1GB,
that's why the used space on my HD looks like 4.5GB, not 6.5GB or more...if the full contents of any save
were loaded into RAM, few of us would have enough to run any Pup! I also modify my grub4dos bootloader
menu.lst to not copy contents of the various Puppy SFS files to RAM, using the "nocopy" boot/cheat code.
Only 1 GB RAM limits what this old netbook can do, but I've learned various techniques to maximize its
capabilities!