How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

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hundido
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How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

Post by hundido »

Hi everyone. New to puppy. My thread on trying to get redshift to work in beginner's help morphed into also being a thread about how I also can't save a session, and the suggestion came to start a new thread here to keep things organized. That seemed like a really good suggestion, so:

I have two USBs with puppy:
A sandisk with slacko 7
An AI Mass storage with fossapup64.

I installed them both on a Fedora system by using balena etcher. Save isn't working on either of them. There's screenshots of what happened in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3227&start=20

The idea came up to try to use my fossapup stick to reinstall my slacko stick with fossapup, using the puppy installer.

I want to use fossapup stick to recreate the slacko stick into another fossapup stick, using the puppy installer, but I'm confused by all the options in the installer.

Here's my system information:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8-Core Processor
Ram: 65876704 Kib
Motherboard: -CF / X570 AORUS PRO WIFI

Kind puppy community, what's the best options to select in the installer to make a USB that might have persistence when I try to save a session?

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Re: Installation/save-file issue

Post by mikewalsh »

@hundido :-

Ah, that's better.

I would help here if I could, but since I haven't used the installer apps for years I'm far from being the best one to give advice.

(I normally perform 'quick'n'dirty' frugal installs. Create a directory with a unique name; copy the relevant Puppy files across, then manually add a new boot entry. It's not hard to do, but it's best you get some experience doing things the 'standard' way first!) :D

Advice will be forthcoming before long; just be patient. The community spans a LOT of different time zones.....many are just getting up for the day when others are turning in for the night, so it may take a wee while.

With that, I'll leave you in the somewhat more capable hands of others for this particular 'subject matter'..! :)

Mike. ;)

Last edited by mikewalsh on Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Installation/save-file issue

Post by williwaw »

this should help with the installer program
viewtopic.php?p=1887#p1887

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Re: Installation/save-file issue

Post by mikeslr »

Hi hundido, and :welcome:

Consider yourself fortunate in that you were confused. No, Really. :lol: Menu>Setup>puppy installer is a 'grand-fathered' application, hanging around as a lot of newbies discover Puppy when they are trying to keep an older computer out of a landfill. Puppy Installer doesn't work with newer computers which employ UEFI as a boot mechanism.

And, as you've discovered, balena etcher --which it may be able to install a Puppy to a USB-Stick-- doesn't do it properly. The result is a Puppy which won't save your configurations, settings and the applications you want to add.

The application you want to use to create a boot-able USB-Stick is frugalpup, viewtopic.php?p=1588#p1588. gyrog has also published a companion application known as OtherInstalls, viewtopic.php?p=24919#p24919. OtherInstalls enables adding 'non-puppy' operating systems such as Windows [and maybe Fedora*] to a grub2 menu.
[* Let us know if you try to use it with Fedora and how it goes. You may notice that it's still in the Cutting Edge Section of the Forum. But I'm sure gyrog would be interested in your experience with it].

For now, lets stick to trying to get your Fossapup64 and slacko 7 properly running. Fossapup64 has a version of Frugalpup builtin and appearing on the Setup-Submenu. If I'm not mistaken, it's version 20 and frugalpup is now up to version 33. If you have been able to create a SaveFile or Folder I would tell you to download and install the version 33 pet*. It should be possible to install version 33 and Menu>Exit>Restart Graphical Server which causes Puppy to 're-catalog' what applications make up its system, and thus use version 33 without being able to execute a Save. But for the purpose of creating a 'Puppy USB-Key', your builtin version 20 should suffice.
You'll find instructions for using Frugalpup here, http://www.fishprogs.software/puppy/fru ... index.html. Note that frugalpup DOES NO FORMATTING. So use your current USB-Fossapup to do prepare the USB-Stick: Menu>System>gparted.
The easiest way would be to then employ "Stickpup" after reading the instructions. It's part of Frugalpup but (under version 20) has its own menu listing: Menu>Setup>StickPup. But for greater flexibility (such as being able to boot both Fossapup and Slacko 7 from the same USB-Stick, or to merely use the Stick as to boot them and other Puppys from USB-Sticks and hard-drives; and have the advantages of having them boot from and/or have access to Linux Formatted partitions) I recommend that you read thru this thread, viewtopic.php?f=105&t=337 especially bigpup's advice.
Unfortunately, at the moment I can't be more specific other than to tell you that the way I setup Puppys on a USB-Key is to create 3 partitions: (1) the first a small (<500 Mb) fat32 boot partition; (2) the second a fat32 partition large enough to locate files I may later want to transfer to a Windows computer; and the rest Linux Ext3 to hold Puppys, SFSes, AppImages, and portable-applications and engage in any operations which can only be performed in Linux formatted space.

-=-=-=-=-
* The way Frugal Puppys work is that new applications are initially only in RAM until you execute a Save, at which time they are written to your SaveFile/Folder. Applications in a SaveFile/Folder have priority over 'builtin' applications. There is also an SFS version of Frugalpup 33 which would be great if Fossapup64 didn't already have a builtin version. SFSes aren't installed. Essentially, they are 'portable', loaded into RAM when needed, and can be unloaded when not. [Again, a device for old computers with little RAM]. But they have lower priority than either the Applications in a SaveFile/Folder or builtin applications.

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Re: Installation/save-file issue

Post by one »

hundido wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:50 pm

[...]
I installed them both on a Fedora system by using balena etcher. Save isn't working on either of them. There's screenshots of what happened in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3227&start=20
[...]

Regarding Balena Etcher I want to repeat what @mikesir wrote:

quote @mikesir
[...]

And, as you've discovered, balena etcher --which it may be able to install a Puppy to a USB-Stick-- doesn't do it properly. The result is a Puppy which won't save your configurations, settings and the applications you want to add.

viewtopic.php?p=18782#p18782
quote @mikewalsh
[...]

(We all know that Balena's "Etcher" is the preferred app of choice for many Linux users in this situation, but it refuses point-blank to perform under Puppy. Trust me, it's not for want of trying, either.... :roll: )

Etcher screws up the partition table ... you can see that in your posted output from <parted<print all> , parted gets confused about the drive's format and partition table.

BalenaEtcher rewrites the partition table on the disk based on the image being written. This makes it seem that the rest of the disk is unusable.
Etcher (currently) just blindly copies the image to disk byte-by-byte (just like dd) ...

What's the diff between etcher and dd-like tools?
https://github.com/balena-io/etcher/issues/3015

quote

[...] at a fundamental level, they both do the same thing of copying a source-image to a destination-drive, in a byte-perfect manner [...]

So the destination-drive turned into a read-only file system (ISO 9660) without persistence (savefile/-folder).

Discussed on github:

https://github.com/balena-io/etcher/issues/996

https://github.com/balena-io/etcher/issues/413

https://github.com/balena-io/etcher/blo ... NTATION.md

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Re: Installation/save-file issue

Post by mikewalsh »

@one :-

I don't want to drag this too far "off-topic", but thanks for those links! I've suspected quite a few things about Etcher over the last few years.....'dd'-based, byte-for-byte copying explains many of them. And that comment; "If 'persistence' required, suggest to use UNetBootin instead....." :roll:

Says it all really, doesn't it? :P

For a bog-standard, mainstream "full" type of install Etcher doubtless works fine. After all, this is how 99% of people install an OS. Etcher, however, doesn't really understand the Puppy set-up.....and tries to install it the same as it does any other OS.

Mike. ;)

Last edited by mikewalsh on Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Installation/save-file issue

Post by bigpup »

The Puppy Universal Install can only install the Puppy version it is running in.
Do not use it.

williwaw wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:35 am

this should help with the installer program
viewtopic.php?p=1887#p1887

Boot the Fossapup USB and use the Frugalpup Installer to install Slacko on the other USB drive.
Use the directions posted in this link.

Do you understand how to use Gparted program?
Make a new partition table?
Partition?
Format?

Yes, Etcher has the USB drive partitioned and setup as CD disk and the iso9660 format CD drives use.
You need to use Gparted to get it back to a normal USB drive setup, before you can do a good install with Frugalpup Installer.
Use Gparted to do these things to the USB drive.
Make new partition table (select msdos for type)
Make partitions.
Format the partitions.

Use partition and format setup, as described in the link, on how to use Frugalpup Installer.

After you get a working USB of Slacko.
You can install and use Frugalpup Installer, running in it, to install Fossapup64 9.5 to the other USB.
After you use Gparted on that USB to set it up as described above.

Note:
When booting from a USB install.
Have only that USB plugged in, until it gets to working desktop.
Some computers have boot problems, if there is more USB drives plugged in, than the one you are trying to boot from.

The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected :o

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Re: How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

Post by mikeslr »

Once you have any Puppy booting from a USB-Stick using the boot-loader system frugalpup installs, it's easy to add another Puppy to that Stick. Assuming that you have Slacko7 on the Stick
1) Right-Click an empty space next to Slacko7's folder and from the popup menu select New>Directory and give it a name such as Fossapup. Leave that window open.
2) Left-Click the Fossapup ISO which will create a window showing Fossapup's files, or from the 'Fossapup-stick', drag the following files into the Fossapup folder and select copy: vmlinuz, initrd.gz, puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs, adrv__fossapup64_9.5.sfs , fdrv__fossapup64_9.5.sfs and zdrv__fossapup64_9.5.sfs.
3) File-browse to, Right-Click and select geany or 'open as text' the file named grub.cfg. You'll see a menu listing similar to:

menuentry "Puppy Slacko7-64" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set STING OF NUMBERS AND LETTERS ID'ING YOUR KEY
echo "Loading vmlinuz"
linux /Slacko64/vmlinuz net.ifnames=0 pmedia=usbflash ... psubdir=/Slacko64 pfix=fsck,fsckp...
echo "Loading initrd.gz"
initrd /Slacko64/initrd.gz
}
Coloring for emphasis only. It will all just be ordinary black text.

Go to the bottom of that listing, press Return/Enter a couple of times to create some space, then copy your listing into it. Then, on the new listing, Change the title line and where ever it reads 'Slacko', edit it to read Fossapup or whatever name you gave the folder. Spelling and Capitalization are important.
Geany has a 'Search>Replace' function.
IIRC, newer versions of frugalpup have a module which will just update the grub.cfg. But for now you'll probably be using version 20 which doesn't.

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Re: How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

Post by hundido »

Thank you, everybody.

After a few days of reading, I'm going to try to make a puppy stick, and record here what I do and the results. I just booted up the fossa pup stick. I inserted the slacko stick, that I'm going to try to fix first.

I downloaded Frugal Pup v33 from the link: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/rdyc5l ... /frugalpup

If I understand correctly, the first thing I need to do is:

Open Gparted
Select: sdc USB Flash drive -- Sandisk USB Flask Drive (57.3G
Click OK
I clicked Device>Create Partition Table...
And then Formatted it MSDos
Create a Fat32 Partition flagged boot: Partition>New
Free space preceding: 1 Under New size, 300; Free Space 58379
Align to: MiB
Create as...okay, Do I make them both primary partions? I don't know. I'll try that for this attempt. ; Partition name: Apparently I can't click there?
Label: Boot

Clicked Add.

Partition>New
Free space preceding:0
New size: 58379
Free space Following: 0
Align to: MiB
Create as: Primary partition? I'll try that since I don't know.
Partition name: I can't click there
File system: ext3
Label: Puppy

Clicked add

Clicking checkmark for apply all operations.
Right clicked fat32 boot partition and flagged it boot.
gparted says sdc has a
sdc1 fat32 BOOT partition used 620Kib Unused 299.39Mib Flags Boot
and sdc2 ext3 labeled Puppy Size 57.01 Gib Used 270.30Mib Unused56.75 GiB

I'm going to publish the post now to save it and start another.

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Re: How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

Post by hundido »

Continued.

Opened FrugalPup v33

Went to puppylinux site. Clicked on Main Download link for Slacko64 Puppy 7.0 (95% sure I clicked that link) and got untrusted connection warning page. I closed that, and clicked the mirror. The iso is downloading. Um, I just got the untrusted link warning when I clicked the checksum.

A few days ago, I tried downloading slacko64-7.0.iso and then Fossapup, and the sha256sum kept not checking out.

I clicked on the slack checksum again, and I didn't get the untrusted link warning this time, but the sha256sum was different. I remember "this" was an option in Frugal pup, so maybe I can make sdc a Fossapup stick instead?

In Frugalpup, I selected Puppy, and selected "this", hoping that means this functioning Fossapup64 will be copied to the Partition. I selected sdc2, the ext3 partition to contain the puppy. I'm creating a folder named Fossapup to contain the files. It seems to have worked.

I clicked the boot button, and clicked the Fossapup folder I made.
I'm selecting sdc1 BOOT for the script that updates the selected boot partition.
I'm choosing "both" It was successful.

I'm going to publish this post, and either tell you of my success from the Sandisk or ask what I did wrong from this USB.

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Re: How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

Post by hundido »

Great news!!! I can boot. I have to select the first partition or it boots in super giant prints, stops, and I had to hard poweroff the computer.

I made some changes to the desktop. And they stayed! Thank you all so much! I have a persistent puppy!

But the boot menu is a lot less full featured. Is that a different thread? Here's what I'm seeing:

20210621_224837.jpg
20210621_224837.jpg (38.92 KiB) Viewed 579 times
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Re: How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

Post by williwaw »

hundido wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:54 am

Great news!!! I can boot. I have to select the first partition or it boots in super giant prints, stops, and I had to hard poweroff the computer.

I made some changes to the desktop. And they stayed! Thank you all so much! I have a persistent puppy!

But the boot menu is a lot less full featured. Is that a different thread? Here's what I'm seeing:

Nice, and it's cool you took the time to document your experience with frugalpup. Its a newish addition to puppy and gyrog is still working on various aspects including a program to detect and write menu entries. the menu, btw, is easily editable and should you wish to try creating a frugal without the installer, it is the one file you will learn to modify to tweak your set-up.

If you haven't already found viewtopic.php?f=105&t=337 it might be the place to offer some feedback or ask questions specific to frugalpup.

I'm guessing you will want a slacko7 frugal install alongside the fossapup on that same stick before too long? Thats the beauty of frugal installs, multiple OS's on the same disk or stick.

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Re: How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

Post by bigpup »

About Gparted and partitions.
A msdos partition table can have:
4 primary partitions.
Or
3 primary partitions.
and
1 extended partition.
A higher number of logical partitions, inside the extended partition.

msdos partition table, started out with the thinking, that you would never need, more than 4 partitions and they would be primary partitions.
when people wanted more.
The extended partition option was introduced.
Make one extended partition and make a number of logical partitions inside it.

The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected :o

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Re: How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

Post by bigpup »

About the boot loader menu.
The Frugalpup Installer, installs a different boot loader, than the one that is inside the Puppy version iso.
It is about as basic and simple as can be, for the boot menu.
But it is a more powerful boot loader.
Frugalpup Installer only installs the core files needed to make a working, full complete Puppy OS, frugal install. (Frugal install is the complete Puppy OS)
There are several files in the Puppy iso not needed.
One being the boot loader in the iso.

The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected :o

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Re: How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

Post by GMBudwrench »

A big thanks guys, for the frugalpup suggestion. This has gotten me back to booting without the CD. I experimented with Lick and it botched my other grub menu up good. Nothing would boot until now. I grabbed the pet and it's now gonna be one of my first installs on any Puppy that doesn't have it preinstalled.

HP G71 Wins10 64 bit, 2.2ghz 320gb hdd, Bionicpup64 on a WD 500gb portable HDD.

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Re: How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

Post by mikeslr »

GMBudwrench wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:05 am

A big thanks guys, for the frugalpup suggestion. This has gotten me back to booting without the CD. I experimented with Lick and it botched my other grub menu up good. Nothing would boot until now. I grabbed the pet and it's now gonna be one of my first installs on any Puppy that doesn't have it preinstalled.

Yes. Frugalpup is a really great application. Thanks again, gyrog, for all the hard-work you've put into it and its companion application "OtherInstalls", viewtopic.php?p=24919#p24919.

But, GMBudwrench, it's worth installing the newest pet version of frugalpup, now at 33, as gyrog has steadily included improvements which may not be in whatever builtin version came with Puppy. I've emphasized pet because of the way Puppys function. SFSes have lower priority than builtins and installed pets. Lower priority means that if you have both, the SFS isn't used. FYI, Installed applications have priority over 'builtins'.

Now, if I could only figure out how to create an aesthetically pleasing boot-splash screen. :)

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Re: How to make a Slacko stick into a Fossapup stick?

Post by GMBudwrench »

@mikeslr That’s the one I grabbed. I went to his sf page and got the latest version.

HP G71 Wins10 64 bit, 2.2ghz 320gb hdd, Bionicpup64 on a WD 500gb portable HDD.

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